Bioweapons

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Ceisiwr
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Bioweapons

Post by Ceisiwr »

If a scientist was approached by the government to research weaponising pathogens for potential biological warfare and they accepted would this violate any of the precepts or be bad kamma?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SarathW
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by SarathW »

Dealing with poison is the wrong livelihood.
This is a violation of the fifth Noble Eightfold Path.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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confusedlayman
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:20 am If a scientist was approached by the government to research weaponising pathogens for potential biological warfare and they accepted would this violate any of the precepts or be bad kamma?
confirm hell

the scientist should reject the offer citing ethical reasons
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Inedible
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by Inedible »

This is another of those things you shouldn't need to ask. Weapons of mass destruction are bad.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by Sam Vara »

Yes, I should say so. The only reason it's not included in the list of proscribed trades is that the Buddha didn't know about it. A loophole for the distracted literalist!

Stick to medicines and antidotes.
santa100
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by santa100 »

Ceisiwr wrote:If a scientist was approached by the government to research weaponising pathogens for potential biological warfare and they accepted would this violate any of the precepts or be bad kamma?
Working for DoD contractors could give a very fat paycheck. However, there're ethical issues involved. If you decide to work for them, make sure to make it clear you'll work for defensive capabilities, not offensive ones. There're a lot of other areas DoD needs people to build up their defensive programs, and these should be legit. from an ethical standpoint.
Last edited by santa100 on Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dharmacorps
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by dharmacorps »

I can't think of a clearer example of breach of the 1st precept, right livelihood, or overall generating immensely bad kamma.
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nothingworthgrasping
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by nothingworthgrasping »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:10 am Yes, I should say so. The only reason it's not included in the list of proscribed trades is that the Buddha didn't know about it. A loophole for the distracted literalist!

Stick to medicines and antidotes.
I wouldn't say that the Buddha didn't know about it because it's impossible to fathom the Buddha's range. Maybe he just doesn't see the need of making 600 BCE Iron Age Indians memorize about those things, of which they have no clue about.

About the topic, I think people who actively planning and developing bioweapons are opted for Wrong Livelihood, just as poison has potential to directly kill lives, so does weapons of any kind, whether it's just for defensive purpose, there is no justification. But there is also a case about a Sotapanna, hunter's wife, she prepare everything that the husband wants for hunting - weapons, traps, ..., and without the intention to kill, without herself killing, she just simply abide her duty, she was declared blameless.

"Bhikkhus, the sotapannas do not kill, they do not wish others to get killed. The wife of the hunter was only obeying her husband in getting things for him. Just as the hand that has no wound is not affected by poison, so also, because she has no intention to do evil she is not doing any evil." - https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/v ... ?verse=124

So what constitute duty? If you need a job to feed your family, could you choose any other job? I think if you're qualified to have a position in a bioweapons organization, you won't have much trouble finding another suitable job. So there shouldn't be an excuse to work for destructive organizations.
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by DooDoot »

santa100 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:57 pm If you decide to work for them, make sure to make it clear you'll work for defensive capabilities, not offensive ones.
Sounds irrelevant:
"A lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison."

— AN 5.177
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Bioweapons

Post by santa100 »

DooDoot wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:49 am Sounds irrelevant:
It is... until the enemies come and burn down your house, rape your wife, and kill your children, because there's no army there to fight them off.
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

santa100 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:34 am
DooDoot wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:49 am Sounds irrelevant:
It is... until the enemies come and burn down your house, rape your wife, and kill your children, because there's no army there to fight them off.

:goodpost:


The king Duṭṭhagāmaṇi, the national hero and protector of Ceylon - the restorer of the Buddha's Sasana, must have understood that very well.
  • Restoration of the Sāsana by King Duṭṭhagāmaṇi

    Twenty years after the death of Uttiya foreign usurpers from South India seized Anurādhapura. Two of them, Sena and Guttika, reigned together for twenty-two years and another Tamil usurper, Elāra, reigned for forty-four years. The lack of interest of these Tamil rulers in the Buddhist faith and the vandalism of their supporters evidently retarded the progress of the religion. Furthermore, the Sinhalese rulers were not free to work for the religion during these periods of political unrest. Nevertheless, the people held strongly to their new religion and showed no signs of laxity.

    It was a young prince from Māgama of the southeastern principality of Ruhuna who restored the lost glory of the Sinhalese and their religion. He was Abhaya, known to posterity by a nickname which means “disobedient,” Duṭṭhagāmaṇi. He was a descendant of Mahānāga, who had established himself at Māgama when his older brother Devānampiyatissa was ruling at Anurādhapura. Kākavaṇṇa Tissa and Vihāramahādevī were his parents.

    After a thorough preparation for war Duṭṭhagāmaṇi defeated and killed Elāra in battle and became the ruler of Anurādhapura. Thus the sovereignty of the Sinhalese rulers of Anurādhapura was once more established.

    Duṭṭhagāmaṇi reigned for twenty-four years. The advancement of the Buddhist religion was his main concern. The Ruvanveli-sāya, the most celebrated stupa in Sri Lanka, was his greatest work. The magnificent edifice of nine storeys and nine hundred chambers, called the Lohapāsāda, “the Brazen Palace,” was constructed by him for the use of the monks. Mirisaveti-dāgaba was another of his works.

    Duṭṭhagāmaṇi was not only a supporter of Buddhism but was also a zealous follower himself. Many episodes in the Pali commentaries depict him as a pious monarch. Under his patronage there flourished several learned monks during his reign.
    Buddhism in Sri Lanka: A Short History

:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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DooDoot
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by DooDoot »

santa100 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:34 am It is... until the enemies come and burn down your house, rape your wife, and kill your children, because there's no army there to fight them off.
Worldly ideas, unrelated to the core of the Buddha-Dhamma.
santa100 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:57 pmmake sure to make it clear you'll work for defensive capabilities, not offensive ones.
How are biological weapons used defensively? For example, if the USA attacked Iraq by invading Bagdad, how would Iraq use biological weapons without killing its own people? Is there any history of using biological weapons defensively? :shrug:

:popcorn:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Bioweapons

Post by confusedlayman »

defence is needed or else country will come down..

defence is to be done by kings and ministers, not layperson/monks of buddhism.
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by salayatananirodha »

idk
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thepea
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Re: Bioweapons

Post by thepea »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:20 am If a scientist was approached by the government to research weaponising pathogens for potential biological warfare and they accepted would this violate any of the precepts or be bad kamma?
Is a pathogen a living being?
I know I don’t take kindly to my government weaponizing me.
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