How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
Post Reply
Rag
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Post by Rag »

Today I went to my local hospital to get a drive through covid-19 test.

They handed me a terms of agreement form to sign. It said at the bottom something along the lines of "I have read and agree to these terms". I started reading the form and I could tell that the nurse was surprised that someone was actually reading the agreement. One of the clauses in this form said something like "I have received, or have received directions on how to obtain, information about such-and-such policies of the hospital". Following that clause was a bulleted list of those policies. I asked the nurse if I could get any more information in paper and she replied that they did not have anything else to give to test subjects. There was a long line of cars behind me, and I went into a bit of a panic. I had to get the test and I felt the pressure of holding up the line, but I knew it would not be entirely truthful to acknowledge that I have received something that I did not receive.

I signed it anyway and got my test. Afterward I felt disappointed with myself for caving in like that. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that I could easily get the information if I simply called the hospital and requested it, but the fact remains that at the time of service I obtained no such information. I just called the hospital and requested the forms by email and they sent them to me.

It's really tricky with terms of agreement like that. I would feel a lot better if it was an actual person that I was making the agreement with, then I could tell them what happened. But it seems that the agreement is a legal one meant to protect an abstract entity. It's really frustrating that one is pretty much expected to be dishonest by the employees of the entity.

The lesson I learned is that a mind that is not instilled with calmness and patience will inevitably have a hard time following the precepts when the pressure is on. I could have just declined to sign the form and went somewhere else to get the test but, having just waited in line and being antsy to get the test over with, impatience drove me to be dishonest. I also could have simply asked the nurse "well can I access the pertinent information online? Can I request it by phone?" That would have constituted "directions on how to obtain" the pertinent information. I'm sure the answer would have been yes. I was too frazzled and anxious to think straight.

I wanted to share this incident with y'all because I just feel down for failing to be virtuous and I feel the need to confess.
coconut
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:10 am

Re: How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Post by coconut »

People try to pressure you all the time, it happens. I was once on a 30 day retreat, and some people entered the retreat on day 15. When we washed our dishes, there was a line up with everyone giving eachother ample space, but the people who came in on day 15 were standing literally right beside me at the sink breathing down my throat with their plate in their hands. I was annoyed, but I did not let their greed pressure me into hurrying up, and I took my time washing the dishes without allowing myself to get stressed out, which actually made them realize their greed, and back up and wait.

Don't let other people's greed, or your projection of their greed affect you and induce anxiety in you. My spouse also does that a lot, she imagines people in her head with their perfect expectations pressured on her.

I told her to stay away from fantasizing like that, and not to invent scenarios in her head. No one honked the car, and even if they did, it doesn't mean it's at you, and even if it was at you, they're behind you, they have no right to pressure you. They must wait, and if they can't wait, tough luck, their stress and anxiety is their own.

Own whats yours, don't own or inherit other people's problems.
Rag
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Re: How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Post by Rag »

coconut wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:15 pm People try to pressure you all the time, it happens. I was once on a 30 day retreat, and some people entered the retreat on day 15. When we washed our dishes, there was a line up with everyone giving eachother ample space, but the people who came in on day 15 were standing literally right beside me at the sink breathing down my throat with their plate in their hands. I was annoyed, but I did not let their greed pressure me into hurrying up, and I took my time washing the dishes without allowing myself to get stressed out, which actually made them realize their greed, and back up and wait.

Don't let other people's greed, or your projection of their greed affect you and induce anxiety in you. My spouse also does that a lot, she imagines people in her head with their perfect expectations pressured on her.

I told her to stay away from fantasizing like that, and not to invent scenarios in her head. No one honked the car, and even if they did, it doesn't mean it's at you, and even if it was at you, they're behind you, they have no right to pressure you. They must wait, and if they can't wait, tough luck, their stress and anxiety is their own.

Own whats yours, don't own or inherit other people's problems.
Thanks for the reply! That point really goes to show how important it is to develop mental tranquility so as to not be taken off guard. I have really bad anxiety and it often gets the best of me. If there is no internal stability I have little hope of reacting better in future scenarios.
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Post by DooDoot »

Rag wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:03 pm I wanted to share this incident with y'all because I just feel down for failing to be virtuous and I feel the need to confess.
I doubt morality or virtue includes responding with perfect calm in the face of great evil. I trust the Covid insanity, based in great lies & deception, might get worse & more challenging for people.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Post by Sam Vara »

Here is a short thread on a similar topic from a few years ago.

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=27208

Very few people regularly read the "small print" in terms and conditions; they usually tick the box and move on to getting the product. Technically, they could be breaching the precept on false speech.
Rag
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Re: How I (think I) broke the 4th precept and the lesson learned

Post by Rag »

I am now in a position where I feel that it might be wrong to access my test results. If I was only able to get the test because of a lie on my part, would it be more bad kamma to enjoy the fruit of that lie (the results of the test)? What would you do?

:thinking:
sunnat
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:08 am

Post by sunnat »

stop worrying. Instead become aware of the tendency to worry. Just watch it rise and pass away. Anicca.
Rag
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

Re:

Post by Rag »

sunnat wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:13 am stop worrying. Instead become aware of the tendency to worry. Just watch it rise and pass away. Anicca.
Thank you.
Post Reply