Medical card and life insurance

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
Post Reply
asahi
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Medical card and life insurance

Post by asahi »

Does vinaya prohibit monastics from purchasing medical insurance and life insurance ? Assuming in Theravada tradition lay peoples are willing to fork out money as a kind of dana offering to them . Looking at some advance country like usa and japan their medical treatment costs are super high , if fall sicks it could cost a million in a snap of fingers .
No bashing No gossiping
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17186
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by DNS »

afaik, they didn't have medical or life insurance in Buddha's time. But we can infer from the teachings that they are okay since the monk is not touching the funds at any time. A lay person could purchase the medical insurance for him and the monk just goes to the doctor with that insurance as needed.

I don't think there would be any point for the monk having life insurance. Life insurance is typically for lower income and middle class families so that if the bread-winner dies, the rest of the family is not left destitute. A monk is not a bread-winner, so no need for that. The lay person would be better suited using those funds for the medical insurance or some other form of dana.
Inedible
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:55 am
Location: Iowa City

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by Inedible »

There are a lot of different levels of having insurance. Many of them aren't worth paying for.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by JamesTheGiant »

asahi wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:47 am Does vinaya prohibit monastics from purchasing medical insurance and life insurance ? Assuming in Theravada tradition lay peoples are willing to fork out money as a kind of dana offering to them . Looking at some advance country like usa and japan their medical treatment costs are super high , if fall sicks it could cost a million in a snap of fingers .
Yes, many western monasteries have medical insurance for the monks. Just as you say, laypeople donate $$ to the monastery, and the insurance is purchased on behalf of the monks, so it does not break vinaya.
I heard that in the USA, insurance is the biggest expense for the monastery. Big $$$$$!
But I understand in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, the monks just trust in the government-funded hospitals.

I don't know what happens in Sri Lanka/Thailand/Myanmar, they used to have free medical care for the bhikkhus, but I don't know if they still do.
48vows
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:31 am

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by 48vows »

Some people have made the case that buying insurance is gambling.
And betting against one’s self nonetheless.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by SarathW »

48vows wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:03 am Some people have made the case that buying insurance is gambling.
And betting against one’s self nonetheless.
I agree that medical insurance seems to be a rip-off.
However buying medical insurance on behalf of a monk is no different to provide shelter, clothes, and medicine.
It is incorrect to say "betting against ones's self"
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
BKh
Posts: 750
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by BKh »

DNS wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:26 am A monk is not a bread-winner, so no need for that.
I had never thought about it before, but sometimes the head monk in a monastery, especially in the west, is indeed the main motivation for lay people to donate to a monastery. Not a beautiful truth, but a truth none the less. So having a large payout to cover expenses while things adjusted to the loss of the main draw could be helpful.

That said, buying a life insurance policy for a head monk is strange in all sorts of ways and I certainly wouldn't say it's a good idea.

And yes, in the USA if monasteries choose to buy medical insurance it would be the largest expense for the sangha. Whether it is a good way to spend the money, knowing that insurance companies regularly deny payment, is a completely different issue. I know of one monastery that purchased medical insurance for the monks. One monk fell and broke his arm. Coverage was denied. The insurance company considered it a preexisting condition.
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by dharmacorps »

I don't see how either kind of insurance have any problems from a vinaya perspective.

I could see a purpose for having life insurance for a monk if it had a specific goal in mind. Although, there are premiums to be paid, so either the monastery or a family member would have to pay those. Term life is relatively cheap. It could act a hedge for the monastery against losing younger monks and their labor, for example.

As observed, the medical system from a financial perspective is ridiculous in the US. I know Ajahn Amaro shared once at a talk I heard that he went to a hospital in California to have a skin lesion looked at, the doctor here said it was skin cancer-- but the procedure to remove it, although simple, was so expensive, he went to Thailand to have it removed free (again, free care to monks in Thailand). I believe that is a common situation for monks needing a procedure. Thailand has fantastic medical care.

Some insurance is not worth it for some people. But if life and medical insurance are a bet you yourself will get sick and die, then its a safe bet you'll win! :)
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17186
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by DNS »

Yeah, medical insurance is out of control in the U.S. And Obamacare only made it worse. Hope I'm not being too political (for this forum), but due to mandates, additional coverage required, insurance companies prices skyrocketed under Obama administration.

I read on one temple's website that their medical insurance premiums alone costs them around $5,000 per month. Just think what that could have done if used elsewhere; temple renovations, funds toward a new meditation hall, etc.

No exaggeration, the monthly premiums for myself and my family went up 5x. We seriously considered going without insurance since we rarely get sick or see a doctor anyway. But now we're too old to go without, as it would be too big of a risk.
Inedible
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:55 am
Location: Iowa City

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by Inedible »

To keep it short, I absolutely agree about Obamacare. Although if I could have a wish it would have been for the Democrats to have done a better job of working with President Nixon when he tried to reform healthcare.
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Medical card and life insurance

Post by dharmacorps »

For destitute, poor, or working class people, or people with significant medical issues, I have seen obamacare has the potential to help (if people are able to navigate the red tape, which is substantial and confusing). For mid to upper income people and business owners in particular it hasn't helped and not infrequently hurt. I have experience on both sides of the issue myself. Monks may be able to get decent rates on Obamacare State exchanges because they have no income.
Post Reply