Eighth precept

[mjaviem]

What does it mean a tall, high sleeping place? What does it mean to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place?

I think the eighth precept goes like this:

Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami

But I know no pali. What is an eighth precept undertaker supposed to be doing?

... Whereas some brahmans and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to high and luxurious furnishings such as these — over-sized couches, couches adorned with carved animals, long-haired coverlets, multi-colored patchwork coverlets, white woolen coverlets, woolen coverlets embroidered with flowers or animal figures, stuffed quilts, coverlets with fringe, silk coverlets embroidered with gems; large woolen carpets; elephant, horse, and chariot rugs, antelope-hide rugs, deer-hide rugs; couches with awnings, couches with red cushions for the head and feet — he abstains from using high and luxurious furnishings such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue...

What is wrong with my bed? Personally I've been sleeping on the floor (over a blanket) on uposatha days (well covered in quilt and blanket to fight autumn's nights colds). What I don't know if I actually am missing the point and the precept it's not about sleeping on the floor.

What I do think it's that it can bring a sense of humility and in the case you welcome more people to spend the night at your home than mattresses you have you are well prepared to offer your own mattress

[bodhifollower]

It is meant to reduce attachment to worldly pleasures. When one sleeps on the floor one only has dhamma to give peace to oneself. When you are comfortable not sleeping on a bed or a couch then you are starting to transcend this world.

These days beds and couches are common objects that many people have. But it wasn't like this in the past. Most people slept on mats and the bed frames were simple and were only about a foot off the ground if someone could afford it or make it. Like coffee tables with mats on them. Sleeping on beds or couches would be commonly seen as a luxury only the rich could indulge in. These days everyone is rich and has a bed or couch. But the eight precepts still apply because they are timeless.

If you are on a mat and have blankets then this is still following the precept. It only breaks the precepts when it becomes luxurious. Silk blankets as one example.

This is not a dhutanga (ascetic practice). You are not meant to hurt yourself. Only to remove what is not needed for sleeping comfortably. One can sleep perfectly fine on a mat many people in asia do this today even the rich.

If you can live without a bed think about what else you can live without. Eventually you will be free from all worldly pleasures.

May all your wishes be fulfilled.

[SarathW]

The objective of avoiding high and luxurious beds is mainly to reduce pride.

[mjaviem]

So sleeping on a mat on the floor still applies as the eighth precept even in our times when having a bed is not seen as a luxury. Thanks both for your replies.

[chownah]

High beds were considered a sign of high social position and an ostentatious display of wealth.....both of which were not to be indulged in by MONKS which is why monks were to follow the eighth precept......since today a high bed does not necessarily signify a high social position nor is it necessarily a display of ostentatious wealth.

I made a bed which was more than a meter above the floor so I could store things underneath it and it was made by nailing together house framing lumber and plywood without any paint or adornment......certainly not a sign of high social position nor an ostentatious display of wealth.....just a practical thing for a person with limited means living in cramped quarters.

Another time I was living in a house when the owners of the house who lived near by had their house burn down so they had to move in with me.....the only place for me to sleep was in an unused bathroom (had no running water in the winter) so I put a piece of plywood over the bath tub with a foam pad for my bed....again it was a high bed.....oh well......I'm sure this will interfere with my attaining nibhanna......

chownah

[mjaviem]

...

Does it mean anyone like you who sleeps in a simple bed is observing the 8th precept already? Or it is still needed to sleep on a mat on the floor to follow it?

[chownah]

...

Does it mean anyone like you who sleeps in a simple bed is observing the 8th precept already? Or it is still needed to sleep on a mat on the floor to follow it?

Do remember that this precept is for MONKS. Monks live through the carity of the lay people. Without the lay support there could not be theravada monks.......if monks are supposed to have denounced worldly things then sleeping in a bed which is in some way distinctly bettter than what is commonly seen in the lay community would appear to be in disagreement with their rejection of worldly things and this would jeoprodise the charity being offered to all monks.
chownah

[Pondera]

This is practical too. My mother refused to grant me lodgings and I was estranged from my wife - so I spent a few nights on the streets.

A useful tip I gained was to acquire a spot on a roof top. This helps avoid detection, getting beat up, etc.

So, I climbed a chain link fence and slept on a roof without a pillow in the month of March.

What did I learn? You don’t sleep much on a hard surface, in the cold of night, with no pillow. When you do sleep, it’s broken.

That being the case, I was happy when the sun came up and was no longer inclined to lay down on this hard surface in the cold without a pillow.

So, in a sense - abstaining from high, luxurious beds endorses wakefulness. Obviously, the more comfortable the bed is - the less inclined you are to get out of it in the morning. Especially - if you have no pressing concerns or obligations.

[mjaviem]

This is practical too. My mother refused to grant me lodgings and I was estranged from my wife...
... So, in a sense - abstaining from high, luxurious beds endorses wakefulness...

You have amazing stories and good insights too. Thanks for sharing.

[Gwi]

high (also) luxurious bed


tall, but not luxurious is OK (but, shouldn't be)

luxurious, but not high is also okay
(same, better not)


high bed: adult legs can be swayed
(luxury beds are generally high category)

luxury: springbed and what is considered expensive



It is highly recommended to sleep downstairs.

[Alino]

The precept about not sleeping in a hight bed, is not about bed. As said Venerable Ajahn Jayasaro - nobody will check the hight of your bed.
Considering that the hight of the bed will free ones mind from dukkha - is attachement to rites and rituals.

The point of this precept - is about not oversleeping. Oversleeping makes much more damage to one's discipline, energy and general state of mind for the whole day.

While iam practicing on 8 precepts for long periods, every time I broke precepts it started with oversleeping...

6-7h30 is a good amount of sleep for a lay who works.

Personally I sleep on the floor for some years now, and even my not religious wife sleeps on the floor with me, and she enjoys it. Sleeping on the floor I suppose to be good for health.

[bpallister]

i have sciatica. i am not sleeping on the floor