Hi,
I'm new to the forum. If this is the wrong subform for the question I apologize.
I want to take the 5 precepts but I have doubts that I can follow them through.
I procrastinate a lot. A lot.
Does it amount to stealing? Or to lying?
Does procrastination break the precepts?
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
No.
However, it is an unwholesome mental state.
However, it is an unwholesome mental state.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
I hope it's clear that I meant I procrastinate a lot during work hours
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
It is not a good thing . Buddha praise those whom are hard working but in wholesome way .
No bashing No gossiping
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
If procrastinate due to laziness (Thina Middha) or sleepiness it is still unwholesome. But not breaking any particular precept.kenteramin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:43 pm I hope it's clear that I meant I procrastinate a lot during work hours
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
I think it is often caused by restlessness and ill will as well, but I agree.SarathW wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:27 amIf procrastinate due to laziness (Thina Middha) or sleepiness it is still unwholesome. But not breaking any particular precept.kenteramin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:43 pm I hope it's clear that I meant I procrastinate a lot during work hours
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
So your thinking is that by not doing your work you are stealing your paycheck instead of earning it?kenteramin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:43 pm I hope it's clear that I meant I procrastinate a lot during work hours
I'd have to give that a solid no for the stealing precept. We don't get much detail in the suttas, but when we do it's about taking something that isn't given. Your paycheck is given to you. If your employer continues to keep you on the payroll, then that's really their decision.
Now if you are lying about doing the work, then that's breaking the false speech precept for sure. No doubt. At that point it's better to focus on not lying rather than trying to figure out if you have also broken the stealing precept. Because no matter what you have personal improvement work to do!
Good news is that you are in the right place. Precepts are to be taken so we improve ourselves. If we only took them once we would never break them, then we'd probably never take them.
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Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
Thank you all for being kind and helpful
That was my main concern regarding the precepts. I don't usually lie, so the rest should be easy. Maybe I'd miss the 5th
That was my main concern regarding the precepts. I don't usually lie, so the rest should be easy. Maybe I'd miss the 5th
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
Its not directly related to the framing of the precepts but its not completely irrelevant. Both indicate an imperfect relation to time and things, which we train to overcome.kenteramin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:03 am Hi,
I'm new to the forum. If this is the wrong subform for the question I apologize.
I want to take the 5 precepts but I have doubts that I can follow them through.
I procrastinate a lot. A lot.
Does it amount to stealing? Or to lying?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
The precepts are to be taken seriously. If you have doubts about following them, don't take them, or only take the ones you can keep. Having a good teacher would help guide you in this regard.That was my main concern regarding the precepts. I don't usually lie, so the rest should be easy. Maybe I'd miss the 5th
So, which one do you think is better: Working hard or procrastination? And why?
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
This is not advice we get from the Buddha.
It also sets up a very odd situation. Let's say you overestimate yourself and think you can keep them so you take the precepts. But then (because you are not a stream enterer, etc) you end up breaking them. So then you stop taking them and never take them again because you always have doubts.
If the Buddha only wanted the people who would never break the precepts to take them, then he wouldn't have told lay people they should follow them from the beginning.
Now, I'm not talking about the situation where you take the precepts just out of social pressure or tradition having no actual intention to follow them. That's probably not great. But if you take them with a sincere intention to try to keep them, then you are following the Buddha's instructions.
Taking the precepts helps you keep the precepts. And it becomes self perpetuating.
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Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
I think rationalizing helps in keeping the precepts.
There's literally no benefit for me to break the precepts. I get nothing out of breaking them. When it comes to stealing, there is nothing I want bad enough that I would risk getting punished for stealing. I can buy everything with my own money. Maybe if I was poor with no money and had to steal food in order to survive, then that precept would be hard to keep, but thankfully I'm not in that situation.
I think the hardest virtue to keep for the average middle class person in a first world country is right speech, which falls into 4 categories: lying, cruel, annoying and divisive (SN 55.7).
But once you rationalize that there is literally no benefit to doing these things, the problem solves itself. There is no reason to lie if you're an honest person of integrity. Let's say you got into a car accident and it was your fault, own up to it and don't lie. Again, maybe this is easy for me because I'm not so poor that I would not be able to survive if I got into a car accident.
But that's how karma works, if you're reborn in the lower planes or at a time when human society is immoral, then it's harder to climb out of the pit as you're dragged down by circumstances.
But for most people being bad and breaking the precepts is just unnecessary and not a survival situation.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
The whole foundation of the precepts is suffering. If you break them, you cause or potentially cause suffering for yourself and others. As the Buddha's teaching is to avoid unskillful actions that lead to suffering, you don't want to break precepts. Constantly breaking precepts is a sign of a bad environment or a bad moral foundation for practice. It's better to fix those than to not take sila seriously.
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Re: Does procrastination break the precepts?
The Buddha does talk about the duties of an employer to and employee and vice versa. You may like to read the Sigālovāda Sutta. Here is the relevant section, although the whole sutta is a good thing to read.kenteramin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:49 pm Working hard is not a value in and of itself. To me it sounds like a protestant ethics thing.
We don't have that over here
https://suttacentral.net/dn31/en/sujato#dn31:27.0
And specifically in regards to the path, working hard is essential. Specifically right effort.
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