Pretend gambling and gachas

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Ceisiwr »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:14 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:03 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:59 am

Unwholesome kamma and not neutral kamma? Doesnt the abhidhamma only designate sexual misconduct as unwholesome?
I think it has lust underpinning any consensual sexual activity. That can be fully unwholesome, or there can be moments of metta too making it mixed. Mixed though isn't ever wholesome. I think the suttas also lead to that conclusion. Intentional action based on any amount of lust can never be wholesome. The same with entertainment etc.
I agree lust and entertainment are certainly not wholesome but Buddhism makes 3 distinctions, wholesome, unwholesome and neither wholesome or unwholesome. always thought most entertainment to be in the last category
It's 4, not 3. Neither black nor white has to do with the NEFP. Black and white is different.
“Monks, these four types of kamma have been directly realized, verified, & made known by me. Which four? There is kamma that is dark with dark result. There is kamma that is bright with bright result. There is kamma that is dark & bright with dark & bright result. There is kamma that is neither dark nor bright with neither dark nor bright result, leading to the ending of kamma."
https://suttacentral.net/an4.237/en/thanissaro

The anti-entertainment idea is even more explicit when we consider that all actors, or all entertainers rather, are said to go to hell when they die.
At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground. Then Tāḷapuṭa the dancing master came up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to the Buddha:

“Sir, I have heard that the dancers of the past who were teachers of teachers said: ‘Suppose a dancer entertains and amuses people on a stage or at a festival with truth and lies. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the company of laughing gods.’ What does the Buddha say about this?”

“Enough, chief, let it be. Don’t ask me that.”

For a second time …

And for a third time Tāḷapuṭa said to the Buddha:

“Sir, I have heard that the dancers of the past who were teachers of teachers said: ‘Suppose a dancer entertains and amuses people on a stage or at a festival with truth and lies. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the company of laughing gods.’ What does the Buddha say about this?”

“Clearly, chief, I’m not getting through to you when I say: ‘Enough, chief, let it be. Don’t ask me that.’ Nevertheless, I will answer you.

When sentient beings are still not free of greed, and are still bound by greed, a dancer in a stage or festival presents them with even more arousing things. When sentient beings are still not free of hate, and are still bound by hate, a dancer in a stage or festival presents them with even more hateful things. When sentient beings are still not free of delusion, and are still bound by delusion, a dancer in a stage or festival presents them with even more delusory things. And so, being heedless and negligent themselves, they’ve encouraged others to be heedless and negligent. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the hell called ‘Laughter’.
https://suttacentral.net/sn42.2/en/suja ... ript=latin
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
TRobinson465
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by TRobinson465 »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:28 am

It's 4, not 3. Neither black nor white has to do with the NEFP. Black and white is different.
“Monks, these four types of kamma have been directly realized, verified, & made known by me. Which four? There is kamma that is dark with dark result. There is kamma that is bright with bright result. There is kamma that is dark & bright with dark & bright result. There is kamma that is neither dark nor bright with neither dark nor bright result, leading to the ending of kamma."
https://suttacentral.net/an4.237/en/thanissaro


Oh how interesting, i wonder why the abhidhamma only mentions wholesome, unwholesome and neither. Cool knowledge though.

The anti-entertainment idea is even more explicit when we consider that all actors, or all entertainers rather, are said to go to hell when they die.
Valid argument, though i always thought of that sutta as more specific to entertainers than the entertained. kinda like how making an advertisement for alcohol is bad kamma but not watching an advertisement for alcohol isnt in and of itself (so long as you dont go out and actually drink alcohol). this was just my understanding of the reasoning behind that sutta on actors going to hell though.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
jahzkan
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:28 pm

Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by jahzkan »

Hey there, fellow Dhamma enthusiasts! The question of whether pretend gambling activities, like playing poker for fun without betting anything, or engaging in gacha games, have unwholesome implications is an interesting one.
noumena
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Location: Indonesia

Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by noumena »

jahzkan wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:28 pm Hey there, fellow Dhamma enthusiasts! The question of whether pretend gambling activities, like playing poker for fun without betting anything, or engaging in gacha games, have unwholesome implications is an interesting one.
I think the problem with gambling, aside from the fact it can be addictive and an easy way to lose a lot of money, is that it's also unskillful to desire money that one hasn't worked to earn, desiring to take others' money due to chance.

With games that involve a bit of luck, but without financial involvement, the addictive factor is the problem -- the other things that make gambling unskillful aren't present.

I use that perspective to consider the "morality" of playing FPS (shooter) games: yes, chasing people and shooting them is definitely wrong. But an FPS game functions a lot more like a kids' game of tag. Is it a distraction from the path? Sure. Can it be addictive or rile up passion? Indeed. But is the motivation/action involved really about taking life? Not at all.

So I consider the morality of games as a whole to be akin to other entertainments (listening to music, watching movies, dancing, playing sports). Sometimes bad for some people. Sometimes helpful in general ways. Largely a distraction from dharma and not something you expect monastics to be seriously involved in, and something people lose passion for as they develop spiritually.

It's a bit extreme to say that laypeople should absolutely abstain from all forms of amusement or that we should criticize people who do. If someone's hobby becomes a vice, maybe speak up there, if it's helpful. I may be speaking out of turn, but I doubt recreationally playing Backgammon, Monopoly, Zelda, Dragon Quest, etc or watching movies like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, whatever bring shame upon Buddhism, are a significant or notable cause of dukkha in lay-life, or can really be called blameworthy.

If we were to do a survey of sotaponna laypersons, I wonder how many polled would say they indulge in video games, social media, reading fiction...? :lol: as long as we don't fool ourselves into thinking that enjoying our hobbies brings us closer to enlightenment, & don't get addicted to them, more useful to focus on bigger issues...
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