Pretend gambling and gachas

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
TRobinson465
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Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by TRobinson465 »

Hello Dhamma friends and foes,


Does anyone know of any suttas, commentaries, or just has thoughts in general about pretend gambling activities (ie playing poker just for fun without betting anything) or things like gacha games?

Do these things still count as unwholesome the way real gambling is? Such activities can be addicting (albeit less harmful if you're not really gambling) and can muddy the mind quite a bit when playing.


Thoughts?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Jack19990101
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Jack19990101 »

It is unwholesome without money too. But we are not capable to fight desires and ill-will at one go. We can selectively choose to attack a collective activities and keep some others.
This is to keep the path bearable, lasting and fun.
Ontheway
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Ontheway »

Not explicitly mentioned in Five Precepts, but I will refrain from gambling activities. It is quite an addicting activity ...

But playing games (without involving money) isn't really prohibited among the lay followers explicitly. It is the same when we play PS5 games, board games or mobile games...just killing time.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
Bundokji
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Bundokji »

I think the pretense would save one from the kammic consequences of it not being real, but not the consequence of being excited by the dynamics that mimics the real. Bare in mind that gambling as well as the concept of money is a collective game, which ends up as a game we play with ourselves. This is why, it is advisable not to think of evil lightly, even if one is dreaming.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Ontheway
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Ontheway »

Bundokji wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:24 pm I think the pretense would save one from the kammic consequences of it not being real, but not the consequence of being excited by the dynamics that mimics the real. Bare in mind that gambling as well as the concept of money is a collective game, which ends up as a game we play with ourselves. This is why, it is advisable not to think of evil lightly, even if one is dreaming.
Agreed.

But what about those games that involves the act of killing or hurting people (eg: The Last of Us, The Last of Us 2, Dead by Daylight, etc...)?

They can become so real.😶
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

As a layperson there is the opportunity to experience higher living on uposatha day, two or four times every month, by also abstaining from all non-dhamma entertainment.
It provides an opportunity to develop awareness of the hindrances to progress, such as the why of playing games and how to abandon delight, aversion and ignorance in relation to the sense impressions that arise.
SarathW
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by SarathW »

Even games and jokes are unwholesome however lay people can enjoy these sort of sensual pleasures.
However lay people are expect only to follow the five precepts and follow the Noble Eightfold Path.
Lay people can't play these games on Uposatha days as you are expected to observe eight precepts which include refrain from these sort of activities.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
TRobinson465
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by TRobinson465 »

Yes well. im not really talking about just games. I recognize that there is no real harm in playing regular games other than perhaps wasting time that could be used more productively or maybe making it hard to focus your mind. I'm talking about like actual gambling-like activities with no stakes, or gacha games that rely on casino/chance based mechanics.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

If it involves lusting for a particular outcome, delighting in outcomes, feeling sad if something happens or sad if something doesn't happen and there is no awareness (ignorance) of the arising and passing of feelings and there is no awareness of this is not me, not mine, not my-self then the impurities, the tendencies to lust, have ill-will and remain ignorant multiplies and suffering increases making reaching the goal even more difficult.
Olive00
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Olive00 »

I know people who can spend their entire salary in one day, I think it's irresponsible and it's the first step to addiction. Therefore, you should be responsible for casino games. Mostly I plan in advance how much I can afford to spend on gambling. It seems to me that it is wise not to spend more than I can afford. But I haven't lost a lot of money yet, on the contrary, I mostly win. It is also very important to choose a good casino, I spent more than a year on this search. Now my favorite is this bet10, the best I've tried.
TRobinson465
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by TRobinson465 »

Olive00 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:35 pm I know people who can spend their entire salary in one day, I think it's irresponsible and it's the first step to addiction. Therefore, you should be responsible for casino games. Mostly I plan in advance how much I can afford to spend on gambling. It seems to me that it is wise not to spend more than I can afford. But I haven't lost a lot of money yet, on the contrary, I mostly win. It is also very important to choose a good casino, I spent more than a year on this search. Now my favorite is this bet10, the best I've tried.
I respect your decision to gamble responsibly, but you know you really should not be plugging gambling sites on a Buddhist forum.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Ceisiwr »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:02 am Hello Dhamma friends and foes,


Does anyone know of any suttas, commentaries, or just has thoughts in general about pretend gambling activities (ie playing poker just for fun without betting anything) or things like gacha games?

Do these things still count as unwholesome the way real gambling is? Such activities can be addicting (albeit less harmful if you're not really gambling) and can muddy the mind quite a bit when playing.


Thoughts?
Any form of entertainment is going to be mixed up with unwholesome kamma, just like any type of consensual sexual activity is. If we take the 5 precepts, they only stop you from doing the absolute worst. There are still lots of bad kamma that can be made even if someone sticks to them perfectly.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
TRobinson465
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by TRobinson465 »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:14 am
Any form of entertainment is going to be mixed up with unwholesome kamma, just like any type of consensual sexual activity is. If we take the 5 precepts, they only stop you from doing the absolute worst. There are still lots of bad kamma that can be made even if someone sticks to them perfectly.
Unwholesome kamma and not neutral kamma? Doesnt the abhidhamma only designate sexual misconduct as unwholesome?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by Ceisiwr »

TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:59 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:14 am
Any form of entertainment is going to be mixed up with unwholesome kamma, just like any type of consensual sexual activity is. If we take the 5 precepts, they only stop you from doing the absolute worst. There are still lots of bad kamma that can be made even if someone sticks to them perfectly.
Unwholesome kamma and not neutral kamma? Doesnt the abhidhamma only designate sexual misconduct as unwholesome?
I think it has lust underpinning any consensual sexual activity. That can be fully unwholesome, or there can be moments of metta too making it mixed. Mixed though isn't ever wholesome. I think the suttas also lead to that conclusion. Intentional action based on any amount of lust can never be wholesome. The same with entertainment etc.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
TRobinson465
Posts: 1783
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
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Re: Pretend gambling and gachas

Post by TRobinson465 »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:03 am
TRobinson465 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:59 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:14 am
Any form of entertainment is going to be mixed up with unwholesome kamma, just like any type of consensual sexual activity is. If we take the 5 precepts, they only stop you from doing the absolute worst. There are still lots of bad kamma that can be made even if someone sticks to them perfectly.
Unwholesome kamma and not neutral kamma? Doesnt the abhidhamma only designate sexual misconduct as unwholesome?
I think it has lust underpinning any consensual sexual activity. That can be fully unwholesome, or there can be moments of metta too making it mixed. Mixed though isn't ever wholesome. I think the suttas also lead to that conclusion. Intentional action based on any amount of lust can never be wholesome. The same with entertainment etc.
I agree lust and entertainment are certainly not wholesome but Buddhism makes 3 distinctions, wholesome, unwholesome and neither wholesome or unwholesome. always thought most entertainment to be in the last category
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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