Taking eggs from chicken

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Sam Vara
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:16 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:13 am
I'm interested, though, in the bit about being vegan "is one eye open". What does it mean, exactly? And what is this "full circle" you talk of?
Vegan is a box that you’ve placed yourself in, to simplify morality as per your comprehension of dhamma.
Is it? How do you know that? It seems unlikely, seeing as how I became vegan before I became a Buddhist, and I don't see any connection between veganism and Buddhist ethics.

Given that, the rest of your post just seems to be based on a complete misapprehension.
Be vegan, be vegetarian, be omnivore, what you put in your body is your choice as your body is your dominion.
Why, thank you! It's good to have your permission!
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:49 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:16 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:13 am
I'm interested, though, in the bit about being vegan "is one eye open". What does it mean, exactly? And what is this "full circle" you talk of?
Vegan is a box that you’ve placed yourself in, to simplify morality as per your comprehension of dhamma.
Is it? How do you know that? It seems unlikely, seeing as how I became vegan before I became a Buddhist, and I don't see any connection between veganism and Buddhist ethics.

Given that, the rest of your post just seems to be based on a complete misapprehension.
Be vegan, be vegetarian, be omnivore, what you put in your body is your choice as your body is your dominion.
Why, thank you! It's good to have your permission!
If we are discussing dhamma then veganism has no place.
Just eat to sustain this bodies life, and have gratitude.
But like everything the unbinding process is complex and varies from one expression to another.
I was simply highlighting the constraints from identification as vegan/vegetarian/etc... and how the mind can put up walls. Coming full circle is letting go of these isms of identity view.
And you do not have my permission to satisfy your hunger pangs, this is a freedom each of us has like breathing and pooping.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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AliochaKaramazov wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:09 am Greetings to all,
I present my respectul salutations to the members of the Saṃgha :anjali: :anjali: :anjali: :candle:

As I wished to elucidate a specific matter in terms of right livelihood (which may shine some light on other matters), I appreciate being able to ask the following question :

Does taking eggs from chicken constitute a breach of the second precept ?

I have read at least two background stories revolving around unwholesome results due to taking eggs from chicken (one seemed to be a story to comment a Dhammapada verse and another of which I couldn’t find the actual reference to be found in the suttas) and as I’ve had the chance of having an exchange with a Venerable bhikkhu who thinks it isn’t an issue to take eggs based on the suttas, I’d greatly appreciate learning more on this matter in order to deepen my understanding on what is proper and what isn’t :anjali:

I thank you for reading me,
Wishing you all well,
With mettā
Asked the Venerable Sangha here. (Sadhu, good householder, a praiseworthy kind of approach) May it be considered as been given leave here to answer, by the Venerables, as having taken leave here (not given, actually) . May it be corrected by them if wrong or not good explained.

(good householder may excuse that good ways, he seems to be used to, aren't that usually here, but good to help out here in this regard and continue like-a-like.)

It's good to follow the most simple way, as it is thought like that to act best for one: "Abstaining taking from what isn't given.", good householder.

If not enough power of argument, one may consider also not taking life and not taking away the truths in addition to act proper.

Everybody can be left alone with simply that and never a fault to take it in all cases most serious in accordiance with ones individual stage. At least the Path is layed out to arrive even at Adhisīla, not taking on even given, when touched.

Yet, of course, it could be that there is someone wishing to help out a hen as welk as a it's child for best prosperity, taking on a matter of generosity by such. Yet, even this could bring one into troubles if well meant but the receiver not happy with it, might feel abused.

Much joy in growing by figure out how simple this Dhamma actually would work, and greatest release by simply follow it with much faith at first place, leaving old patterns of complicated thinking and inhosnesty behind, getting free of indoxication reflecting the truth of this circle of birth and death, for an effort to leave it in best way behind.

(Good also to avoid association with what ever people, not speak of "Ven." (if so), seeing not problems by taking, and giving encouragements toward harm).

In regard of the side-discussion here, Atma once wrong on a lay womans question (in Vegan-dress) "Do we Buddhists have the right to take away from animals", but in German: Buddhismus und Ernährung, making path maybe more understandable as not a matter to rest anywhere in this wheel of suffering inhonestly.
Last edited by S. Johann on Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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DNS wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:48 pm The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
The Buddha ate also flesh, accepted and allowed to be accepted, when given, to eat (expect it has been seen, heared or assumed that harm was caused, objected to be given to monks). Likewise it would be with eggs with the slight different that even if seeing someone breaking an egg, neither the breaker not the seer can be always assumed to be aware of an act of killing or of handling a non-living subject, but falls under "assume, doubt". Who would know whether alive or not. So knowing there is a egg-breaker for monks, the fear and shameful monk would mostly not taking on the gift to eat, as also Upasaka and Upasika often follow and refuse to risk approve.

How ever or more simple: Eating and killing as well as taking or telling to do, those are all different 'things', good Brahman. As far as the topic goes, it was asked in regard of taking (not given).

Nothing to do with eating given (when not done wrong for one for that purpose knowingly or assumed), as the act of eating eatable generally hardly harms, if at proper time.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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Btw: one should consider, if in SEAsia, and in a monastery or under faithful followers, that such as not living eggs are merely not known (and the sphere of doubt remains anyway), and one could get blameful approached if bringing raw eggs (even if unfertilized) there to be cooked, likewise if bringing a living hen to get cooked, would be blamed, without space of declearing a case...
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:53 pm
I was simply highlighting the constraints from identification as vegan/vegetarian/etc... and how the mind can put up walls. Coming full circle is letting go of these isms of identity view.
Yes, like "Freeman" or "Sotapanna", presumably?
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:50 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:53 pm
I was simply highlighting the constraints from identification as vegan/vegetarian/etc... and how the mind can put up walls. Coming full circle is letting go of these isms of identity view.
Yes, like "Freeman" or "Sotapanna", presumably?
Absolutely, I certainly don’t go around in public identifying as a sota or freeman(whatever that is) I do identify as a living man, and not a person.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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DNS wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:48 pm The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
Presumably, a fertilised egg that has been cooked presents no problems. It has been killed by whoever prepared it, just as a piece of meat comes dead to the table, and no breach of precept or vinaya is involved. I'm not even sure that there would have been a clear distinction between fertilised and unfertilised eggs in the Buddha's time.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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DNS wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:48 pm The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
Buddha consumed life and took life into his body to sustain it. There is so much life in an unfertilized egg. And you take this into your body and it keeps you vital.
It doesn’t matter if the egg is fertilized or not, life is life.
Stop thinking about this, just eat and be thankful. If you eat something bad for the body, you will know it.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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Sam Vara wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:56 pm
DNS wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:48 pm The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
Presumably, a fertilised egg that has been cooked presents no problems. It has been killed by whoever prepared it, just as a piece of meat comes dead to the table, and no breach of precept or vinaya is involved. I'm not even sure that there would have been a clear distinction between fertilised and unfertilised eggs in the Buddha's time.
That's true, they probably didn't make any distinction back then. I assume the venerable mentioning fertilized eggs as not being okay to eat must have been referring to lay people? Or perhaps for a monk who received the egg in his bowl, although typically the food is already prepared as you say when placed in the bowl.

Lay people can choose to buy only the unfertilized eggs, which what most eggs for sale are, in stores anyway.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:06 pm
DNS wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:48 pm The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
Buddha consumed life and took life into his body to sustain it. There is so much life in an unfertilized egg. And you take this into your body and it keeps you vital.
It doesn’t matter if the egg is fertilized or not, life is life.
Stop thinking about this, just eat and be thankful. If you eat something bad for the body, you will know it.
It's not good to put the Sublime Buddha into bad light, good householder, and say that the Buddha killed, or aproved killing, good householder. And not thinking, reflecting, careless acting is also strsight way downwardly.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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S. Johann wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:49 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:06 pm
DNS wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:48 pm The Buddha regularly consumed milk and dairy products, so assume he would have accepted eggs as long as they were not fertilized. I've heard some Dhamma talks from venerables that fertilized eggs should not be consumed, as you know it's a living being inside and by eating them, you would be killing that being. But no problem with unfertilized eggs, if one wishes to consume those.
Buddha consumed life and took life into his body to sustain it. There is so much life in an unfertilized egg. And you take this into your body and it keeps you vital.
It doesn’t matter if the egg is fertilized or not, life is life.
Stop thinking about this, just eat and be thankful. If you eat something bad for the body, you will know it.
It's not good to put the Sublime Buddha into bad light, good householder, and say that the Buddha killed, or aproved killing, good householder. And not thinking, reflecting, careless acting is also strsight way downwardly.
What is a sublime Buddha? And how do you interpret the above quote as putting “sublime Buddha” in a bad light?
Buddha took life into his body to sustain vitality. This is a factual statement given the Buddha actually walked this earth as a man. This falls into belief for me as I wasn’t there to witness this. So it’s about as important as the argument between spherical oblong earthers and flat earthers. I haven’t left the atmosphere to witness first hand so it’s belief over wisdom. Buddha taught wisdom.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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Good householder.

It's not at all so that the Sublime Buddha and his good disciples took, take or will take life or what ever, from others, not given voluntary, and it's not so that the Noble Ones would take part on common ways of a householding and trading bad for good ways. It's not wise to compare ones ways of excuse to do not stop taking part and not seeking for ways out, with the ways of the Brahmacariya. Some fools might have suggest one such, yet it's a matter of right conceit and not wrong conceit of people thinking that there is a right in wrong-doing to either take Refuge into the Gems or toward what ever kind of marxist or secular approaches, denying that there are being going forward rightously.

This path requires Samvega as prerequisite or is simply cut off by dwelling in householder-equanimity. It requires right attention and right discrimination to cross the forest not ignorance and hypocritical 'gratitude'. That not of glory at all. No glory seen in oneself, no real gratitude, not knowing whats a fault, what not, there is not even way for Jhanas, not to speak of path and fruits. Nothing but wrong liberation is effect of wrong view and an 'escapej downwardly, isn't one at all.

Once arrived on right conduct and right livelihood, then wise to reflect on ones son, mother... to get disenchanted toward pleasure in food even if not involved intentionally in harm. So first thing first and not follow Zen-like imorallity by householder equanimity. If going no akusala would be possible, the Sublime Buddha wouldn't have taught the way out at all.
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Re: Taking eggs from chicken

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Aloka wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:09 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:45 am As a sotapanna farmer I.....
Aloka wrote: Haven't heard of that category before, is it the same as a sewage farmer ?

:reading:
thepea wrote: I just got back from feeding the chickens and I found a dead mouse in the water bucket. So I fed it to the chickens as a treat. They loved it, tore it apart and devoured it.
Nature is beautiful, the arising and passing. Blessed are we with awareness.
Aloka wrote: That doesn't answer my question....but I guess that in an ideal world blessed also are the loonies in La La land!

.
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