Taking eggs from chicken

[AliochaKaramazov]

Greetings to all,
I present my respectul salutations to the members of the Saṃgha

As I wished to elucidate a specific matter in terms of right livelihood (which may shine some light on other matters), I appreciate being able to ask the following question :

Does taking eggs from chicken constitute a breach of the second precept ?

I have read at least two background stories revolving around unwholesome results due to taking eggs from chicken (one seemed to be a story to comment a Dhammapada verse and another of which I couldn’t find the actual reference to be found in the suttas) and as I’ve had the chance of having an exchange with a Venerable bhikkhu who thinks it isn’t an issue to take eggs based on the suttas, I’d greatly appreciate learning more on this matter in order to deepen my understanding on what is proper and what isn’t

I thank you for reading me,
Wishing you all well,
With mettā

[Rambutan]

Is the egg the property of the chicken?
Does the chicken own the egg?

[Aloka]

.

Hens eggs which are sold commercially in food shops are unfertilised - i.e. they are produced by hens that haven't mated with a rooster.

In other words they won't hatch and become fluffy little chickens!

[Sam Vara]

Is the egg the property of the chicken?
Does the chicken own the egg?

Or does the egg own the chicken?

Being vegan solves a lot of these problems.

[santa100]

Does taking eggs from chicken constitute a breach of the second precept ?

Depends on the context. Ex: if one's casually walking down an open field and spots a chicken laying some eggs, then taking its eggs would be considered "taking things that are not given". But if the chickens are "employed" on a chicken farm where they're provided with food, drink, and shelter, then their un-fertilized eggs could be considered their work products to be collected from the farm host and later on being sold at fair price to any customers willing to buy.

[Nicolas]

‘If a monk, intending to steal, takes from an inhabited area or from the wilderness what has not been given to him—the sort of stealing for which kings, having caught a thief, would beat, imprison, or banish him, saying, “You’re a bandit, you’re a fool, you’ve gone astray, you’re a thief”—he too is expelled and excluded from the community.’”
[...]
There is no offense: [...] if it is the possession of a ghost; if it is the possession of an animal; if he perceives it as discarded [...].

[Maarten]

If it's your chicken then that would make it your egg. If it's the neighbor's chicken then it would be theft.

[santa100]

Is the egg the property of the chicken?
Does the chicken own the egg?

An interesting perspective...imagine an intelligent being (deva, asura,...) many folds more advanced than humans (on the same scale that we are to the chickens), they're looking down at us and wonder the same thing: "look at those poor "chickens", do they own their possessions??"

[Disciple]

It's okay to take the eggs as long as you apologize to the chicken afterwards.

[thepea]

Is the egg the property of the chicken?
Does the chicken own the egg?

Or does the egg own the chicken?

Being vegan solves a lot of these problems.

As a sotapanna farmer, I gather over ten eggs daily from chickens. They don’t seem to mind at all. I give them accommodation, good fresh food and clean water and in turn I get wonderful healthy fresh eggs.
No problems.
Being vegan is one eye open, come full circle to see there are no problems with the circle of life.

[Sam Vara]

Is the egg the property of the chicken?
Does the chicken own the egg?

Or does the egg own the chicken?

Being vegan solves a lot of these problems.

As a sotapanna farmer, I gather over ten eggs daily from chickens. They don’t seem to mind at all. I give them accommodation, good fresh food and clean water and in turn I get wonderful healthy fresh eggs.
No problems.
Being vegan is one eye open, come full circle to see there are no problems with the circle of life.

Yes, I meant of course that I was free from having to worry about the ethics of egg-collection. If other people have also achieved freedom from worry about the ethics of egg-collection, then I rejoice in their good fortune.

I'm interested, though, in the bit about being vegan "is one eye open". What does it mean, exactly? And what is this "full circle" you talk of?

[thepea]

I'm interested, though, in the bit about being vegan "is one eye open". What does it mean, exactly? And what is this "full circle" you talk of?

Vegan is a box that you’ve placed yourself in, to simplify morality as per your comprehension of dhamma.
It’s wonderful to awaken to the cruelty that corporate greed has upon turning animals into cheap mass produced affordable food. We open an eye to this world and feel a deep compassion for all living creatures. As most are city dwellers and not allowed to keep livestock and farm there is a disconnect to where an egg comes from and where a breast of chicken comes from, you go to the big box store and eggs are boxed in a fridge and chicken meat is packaged in plastic and no signs of a living chicken anywhere. People see videos of the cruelty of factory farming and then they feel drawn towards vegetarianism or veganism. Mental contructs(walls) are then formed to protect one from feeling the hopelessness to this cruelty of globalism and corporate cruelty and disconnect. We are living breathing feeling creatures just as chickens are.
We want to live in harmony with nature not as ruler or avoiding the realities of life and to sustain life.
For your life to sustain you must ingest life, this is taking life.
So you have one eye open, and have seen the cruelty. Can you open the other eye and see the beauty of living(taking life) without the walls of veganism.
Not saying you cannot but as example we had a female traveller stay with us on our homestead last summer for a few weeks. She identified as vegan, and out of respect I made sure that we prepared vegan meals as our main meals of the day. This lady saw that we kept animals in the barn and was really uncomfortable with coming to see them. By the end of her visit she was in the barn holding the chickens and mentioned that she could feel the energy of the barn and all the work we put into caring for the animals and she even experienced the relationship with the chickens and the gathering of eggs.
Baby steps as I see it coming around full circle.
As I had recently been released from lockup as a political prisoner we had a party planned with lots of people from neighbouring provinces coming and we had prepared a huge bbq meal for the gathering. Beef and veggie Burgers, bbq chicken, egg salads, garden salads, desserts both vegan and some not.
As the food was being prepared I found this woman packing up her van and hiding in it. I asked “did something happen?” She couldn’t remain in the house with meat being prepared and she was outside in a terribly unhappy mental state. She was missing out on all the joyous activities in the house due to a mental construct.
This is not having both eyes open.
Be vegan, be vegetarian, be omnivore, what you put in your body is your choice as your body is your dominion. The mind is also your dominion and you can construct walls or allow open space.
It’s all one big mess of taking and ingesting life.

[Aloka]

As a sotapanna farmer......

Haven't heard of that category before, is it the same as a sewage farmer ?

[thepea]

As a sotapanna farmer......

Haven't heard of that category before, is it the same as a sewage farmer ?

I just got back from feeding the chickens and I found a dead mouse in the water bucket. So I fed it to the chickens as a treat. They loved it, tore it apart and devoured it.
Nature is beautiful, the arising and passing. Blessed are we with awareness.

[Dhamma Chameleon]

The Buddha's advice is always concerned with avoiding bad results and suffering, so from that point of view I can see that taking an unfertilised egg from your own or a wild chicken is not stealing as per the precept. Even so, to me it is patently clear that an egg laid by a chicken is not given to me, and that therefore taking it does constitute taking what is not given. No bad results as such but a manifestation of greed for sure. My understanding is that this is why the monastic sangha is only allowed to partake of food that is given to them as alms. I also think this is the kind of question one needn't worry about until the end stages of the path.