Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
daimond
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by daimond »

pannatti dhamma, law of agrement in this case copyright law give to creator (author, musician) and public (public domain) to balance and fairness


when the law copyright been corupted and been broken so the trust of the agrement too.

it is natural when the broken copyright be force to people, the people would rebel and tried erase the broken copyright law.

we of course been caught in this war, each side would do propaganda and startegy to make us with one of the side, so important to know the root and source so we could stay idle not effectted by they propaganda and the startegy each side.

we must refer to the original concept of the copyright law who give the creator (author, musecian, etc) and public (public domain) balance and fairnes.

This law of copyright (book) after +50year the author die and so the book enter to public domain, no extended copyright law if this been extended public would think the copyright law have supresian, opresion and violate the public right. (so the trust of agrement been broken by the act[extending the copyright law])


now you know there a few diffrent download give free

so you know the download ebook are not illegal if it enter public domain, example Ernest hemingway books.

but you must be careful if the download free cause they would tried so you would not stay idle to accepted the broken copyright law and join the group to erase the broken copyright law.
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Alex123
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by Alex123 »

Why does copyright remains (for 50 or more years) when the author of it has died?
What gives the right for someone else to make money off someone else's work?
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."
daimond
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by daimond »

basicly copyright law origin to meet two side the owner of the creation would accept something from they creation in this case money for they living but there other hand there public who would not able acsess to this creation who maybe this kind person would able be inspire by this creation to create other creation to more inspire too public.

+50 years after the death, well if + 95 years/+ 300years after the death of the author did you still recodnize this person creation? and how far the diffrent culture gap after +95 years / +300 years after the dead of the author?
daimond
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by daimond »

What gives the right for someone else to make money off someone else's work?

this quite difficult answer(i hope i not wrong answerd it) regular author work in a company, they pay the author for the works so company held the copyright laws of the work and of course they want get return for they investment so this copyright law limit it, the company for use the work forever, so this work would have sosial function when enter to public domain.
person
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by person »

daimond
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by daimond »

if you look to up there quote speaking about ernest hemingway (+50) and there abit about james joyce (+70), i know ernest hemingway but not familiar(not know) with james joyce.
000
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by 000 »

Good topic. Yeah ive often aked this aswell because there is a defenite grey area when it come to this. IMO P2P sharing is fine aslong as it isnt something unreleased to the public yet and the uploader is violating the copyright of the original producer. For example i often use the pirate bay to download books for my mom for her nook using torrents and peer2peer sharing which i find is acceptable aslong as the uploader isnt claiming to be the original producer. For a more everyday example its essentially the same as your friend purchasing a book from a book store and maybe a a month after he or she has read it they give it to you ...its pretty much the same just over the internet imo. Ive also discovered alot of great dhamma books that i probly wouldnt have discovered otherwise if it werent for p2p sharing..like ajahn cha's a tree in the forrest and some great dhamma talks aswell. just my 2 cents
000
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by 000 »

K.Dhamma wrote:It's hard to say. I like to draw up analogies when things like this occur.

Your neighbor has an apple tree. You buy an apple from him. Seeds and all. Instead of throwing out the seeds you plant the seeds and in 5 years you have an apple tree of your own. You decide to give away your apples instead of sell them to anyone. So your neighbor doesn't get any money anymore from his apples because you used HIS apple seeds to grow your own tree.

Does this make it right? Depends on whether there was an known or even unmentioned agreement that you wouldn't use the seeds to put him out of business.

When you give away a CD or DVD was it because you felt compelled to let others enjoy the fruits of your labor/money? Was it to make the other person lose money because CD's and DVD's cost too much these days?

Are you looking for the CD or DVD online because you choose not to spend money to get it? Doesn't that err on the side of greediness? Are you under the assumption that the person offering it was giving it to you specifically? Are you the intended receiver?
Lots of questions.
I feel that anymore most people tend to ebb on the side of giving away because they don't want others to have to spend money. Then again, I can't read minds so I cannot conclude this absolutely.

I think it comes down to intention. On both the receiving side and giving side. If your intentions are deceitful, then yes it is an infraction. If a friend gives you a CD or DVD that is burned or allows you to copy it from his computer because he knows you really enjoy that particular one and gives it to you freely without asking for anything in return then I suppose it doesn't violate it. Again, I am a layperson and this is just my input. This is a rather interesting conversation though.


Just a footnote: Put it into context of a virtue. Sometimes that sheds some light on the truth of things.
Yeah to stay witrh ur analogy of the apple tree imo if the original owner of the apple tree rightfully owned the tree and it wasnt stolen then he has all the right to share it with whomever he wants. If i go to best buy and buy an elvis cd with my own money and then convert the tracks to mp3's and give the cd to my brother who knows i didnt steal the cd and bought it legally then i think its not a problem for either of us since we both are aware of our intentions and the result.
HenryDLacklaw
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by HenryDLacklaw »

My sister has this musician friend who downloaded his own music illegaly and gave out copies to his friends. Is that a violation of the 2nd precept?
Jhana4
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by Jhana4 »

I propose this thread be renamed "the great illegal downloading as a potential Buddhist ethical issue thread"
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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greenjuice
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by greenjuice »

Taking what is not given is the wording of the precepts. Yes, when you illegally download something, it is not given. But it is really taking? Goes for all intellectual property conundrum. Imagine if someone would to "steal" your car from your garage while you're sleeping by using some new technology that could copy the car. You wake up, get ready for work, go into your garage, get in your car, start it up and drive to work. You notice nothing, a day just like any other. Now, the state could proclaim the the use of this new car-copying technology to be theft, and people would get accustomed to charging other people for copying their cars, and if someone were to copy someone's car without the owners permission, he would be charged with theft. But from a common-sense perspective- was there theft? And from a Buddhist perspective- was something taken? Someone stealing your car while you sleep, you waking up and finding your car in absolutely the same condition as you left it, my personal opinion is that there's nothing there.
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Weakfocus
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by Weakfocus »

If a person, a company or an organization does not want you to take a copy of their creation without paying, and you download their content with torrents or filelockers, you are denying them some revenue. Of course, it is entirely possible that if downloading was not possible you would not buy the content anyway. A very convenient, hypothetical case. But it does not change the reality that the percept has already been been violated the moment you download the content.

Further, by using filelockers and torrents you are also helping others engage in unskillfull activity and contributing to violation of their percepts, too. Therefore to me it is unquestionably a violation of the percept.

Not that I am perfect and do not break any percepts....I have plenty of music and video content which I downloaded with torrents. Mayhaps some day I will evolve to the point I will not need that content (and/or will have enough cash to buy content), but today is not that day.
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greenjuice
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by greenjuice »

I am denying them revenue they expect to gain in exchange for giving me permission to use my own property in a certain way, without taking anything from them. It's not real property, it's just made up by the legal system. I have already explained- there is nothing taken. The only thing that is happening is the intellectual property rights holder trying, by threat of law, to limit what I can do with my own property even though by that use of my own property I don't hurt him or take anything from him.
Buckwheat
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by Buckwheat »

greenjuice wrote:...there is nothing taken...
Suppose there is a play at the local theater. The admission is only $5, but you're too lazy to pay. You sneak in the back door and nestle in with the rest of the crowd watching the show for free. As the show did not sell out, you did not deny anybody a seat. You simply watched the show for free. Nothing was taken.

Does this violate the 2nd precept?

If it does not violate the 2nd precept, then why was your heart racing as you entered the back door?
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Does illegal downloading violate the 2nd precept?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Buckwheat wrote:If it does not violate the 2nd precept, then why was your heart racing as you entered the back door?
Non-sequitur... racing hearts have nothing to do with the 2nd precept.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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