Jhāna Mastery

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Ceisiwr
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Jhāna Mastery

Post by Ceisiwr »

Something I haven't really thought about before. When someone masters a jhāna, say the 3rd or 4th, do they still have to go through the prior jhānas when they meditate or can they go straight into that attainment?
Saññāvirattassa na santi ganthā,
Paññāvimuttassa na santi mohā;
Saññañca diṭṭhiñca ye aggahesuṃ,
Te ghaṭṭayantā vicaranti loke”ti.


“For one detached from perception, there exist no ties,
for one by wisdom freed, no delusions are there,
but those who have grasped perceptions and views,
they wander the world stirring up strife."


Māgaṇḍiya Sutta
Spiny Norman
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by Spiny Norman »

Ceisiwr wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:40 pm Something I haven't really thought about before. When someone masters a jhāna, say the 3rd or 4th, do they still have to go through the prior jhānas when they meditate or can they go straight into that attainment?
Probably a heretical view, but I regard these states as continuously available.
So it's about accessing, rather than developing.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
SarathW
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by SarathW »

There is a Sutta to say that you can go to any of these states at Will once you master it.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Spiny Norman
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by Spiny Norman »

SarathW wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:02 pm There is a Sutta to say that you can go to any of these states at Will once you master it.
Is there a secret code word? And do you get the code with bogus claims of stream entry on the Internet? :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Sam Vara
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by Sam Vara »

SarathW wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:02 pm There is a Sutta to say that you can go to any of these states at Will once you master it.
Only if you wear a mask, and have an app saying you are covid free.
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Assaji
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by Assaji »

Spiny Norman wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:09 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:02 pm There is a Sutta to say that you can go to any of these states at Will once you master it.
Is there a secret code word? And do you get the code with bogus claims of stream entry on the Internet? :tongue:
Due to your outstanding achievements, I am giving you the code word right now :)

The secret word is 'nimitta'. If you remember well the nimitta (attunement) of a given jhāna, you can re-enter it again. See the Pabatteya Gavi Sutta:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

(with nimitta translated as "theme").
coconut
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by coconut »

It's sequential, they go through the first to the fourth. Just that they do it really fast and without effort, so it seems automatic and natural, what the suttas call "at will". No different than opening the door to your house and walking through the hall to get to your bedroom.

If you could skip jhanas, then the Buddha would skip jhanas as well.

Anyone saying otherwise doesn't understand how the 5 aggregates work and hasn't read the suttas.
Spiny Norman
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by Spiny Norman »

Assaji wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:30 am
Spiny Norman wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:09 pm
SarathW wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:02 pm There is a Sutta to say that you can go to any of these states at Will once you master it.
Is there a secret code word? And do you get the code with bogus claims of stream entry on the Internet? :tongue:
Due to your outstanding achievements, I am giving you the code word right now :)

The secret word is 'nimitta'. If you remember well the nimitta (attunement) of a given jhāna, you can re-enter it again. See the Pabatteya Gavi Sutta:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

(with nimitta translated as "theme").
Not that different to reliving (say) the memory of a beautiful sunrise.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Assaji
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by Assaji »

Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:35 am Not that different to reliving (say) the memory of a beautiful sunrise.
It's indeed partly similar. The difference is that you repeatedly recall how the basis (ārammaṇa) is perceived in that jhāna, - along the continuum of de-perception.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Jhāna Mastery

Post by confusedlayman »

access, first jhana, second, third

I don't know if 4th can go directly....

but formless can go directly from 5th onwards or each respectively I think
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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