Jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Gotama the Great Sakayan Sage, I ran into this sutta, while looking for the strawman suta, i did not find it, but here is SN 12.10  Condensing its content; sutta writes
Bhikkus before my enlightenment, while i was still a bodhisatta, not yet fully enlightened it occured to me
(switching to my words to make the story short)
"this world is in quite a jam, it is born, ages and dies, it is reborn...yet it does not understand the escape from suffering?"
Way before awakening Buddha had noted,  
  • there was no person here,
sutta writes
  • it is born, ages and dies
Following this the progression of DO is given. There was a breakthrough in Bodhisatta's wisdom, quite some time before the night of awakening.
Perhaps this was the stream entry, or higher?
  • Before final awakening, Buddha had worked out the entire sequence of DO without a glitch.
What took him so long? Perhaps the hardest challenge was to get rid of the last traces of asavas that were stuck on the kammic consciousness, so subtle that he himself could not pin it down. Final awakening is presented as a battle with Mara generally...
Mara in his case being the remnants of unskillfulness or unwholesomeness. Buddha was not fighting his asavas for Annihilation nor women (Mara's daughters) that night, he was battling the last traces of delight that lingered in him. Was it a stubborn memory of the olden days, of a son, or a wife? None can say, all i can speculate is it had to be something worthwhile, not a hangover of an annihilation, like a hangover from a night of drunkenness, and revelry.
Only a stupid wannabe philosopher out of touch with BuddhaDhamma will say Buddha was fighting a view of annihilation the night before awakening,[/b] or weeks, or months before. 
He had already come up with a design for DO, way before the grand day.
He was not an idiot by this time. Annihilation is a mark of an idiotic mind. Idiots cannot recognize the genius. Idiots are limited by their idiocy.
  • How do you measure the immeasurable mind with a teaspoon of a puny brain?
Discard the teaspoon and walk away until you think you can measure the mind of Bodhisatta. At least try to find the perfection of Brahma vihara for a moment or two. Those perfected moments too are called immeasurable. Metta sutta.
On the night of awakening he ripped asunder,  the karmic consciousness, hard to dislodge. Power of  that explosion was such that It never reformed again.
MN 4, and MN 36, MN 85 MN 100, describes 4th jhana as the vehicle. 
Now if someone on this thread claims 
"In other words, Goatama stopped being one (meaning annihilationist) when he awakened, suspecting part of his awakening was seeing how his annihilationist views still tethered him to existence"
it sounds ludicrous..
Canon admits he had already known DO for quite sometime, before awakening. Who would think that mara battle on the night of Full Awakening was based on a stupid Annihilationistic View? Even commonly ignorant people like us know better. Bodhisattaa full of wisdom! Why would he entertain a silly idea, on an auspicious night? To do so he had to be more stupid than us. I won't go there.
Canon never tells us exactly when he met these two Indian sages. One scholar Andre Bureau goes as far as to say Buddha never met them. Our inhouse wannabe Buddhologist writes Buddha was obsessed with their teachings. I tend to lean towards A. Bareau. Bareau has proven himself, by writing a text on "The Buddhist schools of the Small vehicle"
Reading the canon however, one comes across two suttas where Buddha mentions these two teachers in a most unkind light, perhaps he met them briefly, (few days, two weeks the most) and dismissed their methods as of no use in the cessation of suffering.
The canon never gives us a time frame of events. What likely happened was:
Siddhartha leaves his family. He had already been  exposed to the accumulated vedic knowledge before his renunciation. Upon leaving the palace he went in search of the best teachers.  Why waste time? Alara kalama & Uddaka Ramaputta had a reputation. He met them spent some time (most would be two weeks) with each one of them, did not take him too long to figure out
"This is baloney, i will never find the end of suffering through a scheme of warped meditation"
He resorted to other yogic practices prevalent in Magadha, 3-4 years? ... almost died, devas injected nourishment via skin pours.
Gotama regains his strength, gains his wisdom, had some decent food instead of starving, remembers the jhana episode as a child, pursued that line of thought, figures out DO, weeks, months  before awakening?
  • Managed to get rid of the traces of craving, and reversed DO, on the night of awakening
Mission accomplished! It is Pulsar's Fairy tale. It rings of truth far better than a tale of two cities of annihilation, tugging at Buddha, on the night of awakening. 
Good luck with your future speculations as a Buddhologist. Tell us a story or two worth listening to, instead of Nibbana that exists, or the challenge of figuring out the truth regarding the Five Precepts.
With love on a fine Monday morning :candle:
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Viharati means lives or abides, or dwells or sojourns. How does one dwell in the four foundations of Mindfulness? SN 47.42 Origination approaches the Four Foundations in an unusual manner. The curious mind should pay attention to this sutta.
How is suffering conditioned? Primarily by ignorance. Ignorance is a behemoth, enormous, like an especially big and powerful Corporation. How does the naive tackle this monstrosity?
Slowly chip away, until the monster cannot stand it anymore.
Adze handle SN22.101https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN22_101.html

Approached according to SN 47.42, karmic consciousness is done away in the last foundation, instead the awakening factors come to surface. https://tipitaka.fandom.com/wiki/SN_47. ... daya_Sutta
By successfully negotiating the first three foundations, aggregates are murdered.
From the rubble of the dead aggregates, awakening factors arise, just as when approached tactfully, the karmic consciousness explodes in the 4th jhana.
A description of this state is found in Kalahavivada sutta https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/mills.
It begins like this.
Sn 862
"Sir, said the questioner, whenever there are arguments and quarrels,
there are tears and anguish and arrogance and pride & grudges and insults to go with them.
Can you explain how these things come about?"
I skip over the first few and come to the verses that address the 4th jhana mode.
The two verses below are summarized
Verse 871
"So what sir, does this contact come from? How do we do away with contact?"
Verse 872
"Contact exists because the compound of mind and form exists. (nama-rupa). What pursuit leads a person to get rid of form?"
Verse 874
"There is a state where form ceases to exist, said the Buddha, 
It is a state without ordinary perception and without disordered perception
and without no perception and without any annihilation of perception.
It is perception consciousness, that is the source of all the basic obstacles."
 
Verse 874 is the most concise description of the 4th jhana I've come across in the canon.
Different translations of the sutta are found on Sutta Central.
I picked the French this morning, since some of you speak French, and since I was in the mood for French.
«Quelqu'un qui n'est pas percepteur des perceptions
pas percepteur des perceptions aberrantes,
pas impercepteur,
ni percepteur de ce qui a disparu:
pour qui arrive à ceci,
la forme disparaît—
car les complications-classifications
ont leur cause dans la perception.»
With love on a friday morning :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:37 pm Verse 874
"There is a state where form ceases to exist, said the Buddha, 
It is a state without ordinary perception and without disordered perception
and without no perception and without any annihilation of perception.
It is perception consciousness, that is the source of all the basic obstacles."
 
Verse 874 is the most concise description of the 4th jhana I've come across in the canon.
Different translations of the sutta are found on Sutta Central.
i don't get it, can you elaborate?
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Auto wrote regarding verse 874 of Sn 4.11
"i don't get it, can you elaborate?"
Verse 874 goes like this
"There is a state where form ceases to exist, said the Buddha,
It is a state without ordinary perception and without disordered perception
and without no perception and without any annihilation of perception.
It is perception consciousness, that is the source of all the basic obstacles."
and I had mentioned that it was the most lucid description of 4th jhana, soteriologically
speaking.
I thought you would be the first one to get it. Once on another thread you brought us the following.
I thanked you with flowers. Don't you remember?
The verse is from a Mahayana sutta, even though I do not agree with some aspects of Mahayana, esp where they dethroned the Arahant, I loved the poet who came up with the following poem. It is as if he completely understood the soteriological significance of the 4th buddhist Jhana.
You wrote
And per Mahayana (if to read the summary of khandhas in Surangama sutra) the
  • fabricated vinnana is samsaric mind.
surangama wrote:
‘ânanda, in the cultivation of samàdhi, when the fourth aggregate
of discrimination (saüskàra) comes to an end, the subtle
disturbance in the state of clearness, (that is the functioning of
samsaric mind), which is the mechanism of birth and death,
suddenly explodes
and exposes an outlook completely different
from that of the profound karma of pudgala (i.e. all beings
subject to transmigration).
To me SN 4.11 verse 874, and above poem are saying the same thing. Don't you recognize? The only hindrance to your understanding might be your adherence to formless meditations of Alara K and Uddka R. origins. No matter how much I brainstormed, I was never able to consolidate these two methods into a one way path to Nibbana which includes Samma Sati SN 47.42 as a means of entry to Samma Samadhi and Nibbana, based on the Ten-fold path. According to Buddha, we are not supposed to blindly believe everything in the canon. His advise to the Kalamas, "Check it out for yourself" if it does not look agreeable, agree to disagree" in my own words.
Be well :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:38 pm ..
i think it could speak of realizing the identity of mind.
surangama wrote:In this
state, all the worlds in the ten directions, together with his
body and mind, are clear and transparent like crystal both
within and without.
identity is sameness in a sense of equality
surangama wrote:‘As the practiser is immune against external attractions
and realizes the identity of mind, and objects, the separateness
arising from the six different sense organs ceases and
the mind functions uniformly with seeing and hearing in
regard to a single function which is pure and clean.
One of the first and also basis for all other pitfalls is one doesn't notice how samskara returns to its source and thus not actually notice the pure state of nirvana. Otherwords samskara returns to consciousness and thus unknowingly still taking samskara as nirvana with different kinds of heretical manifestations.
surangama wrote:‘ânanda, you should know that, as the practiser
looks exhaustively into the fourth aggregate (saüskàra), it
will return to its source, that is (the fifth aggregate) consciousness...
Thus he
can enter the source of perfection but if, on his return to it,
he wrongly sets it up as the cause of true permanence, and
regards this as correct..
The quote 874 in your post i think names the pitfalls before one notices the pure state of nirvana what reveals completely different outlook and the surangama quote in your post is the fruition of the moment one notices that pure state leading to the end of samsaric mind.
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

I think each one of us try to translate the words of suttas to the best of our ability,
into our own internal dialogue, in a language that only we understand.
Each sutta has layers of meaning. One's understanding improves with one's spiritual maturity.
For instance I see the suttas in a clearer light now than I did before. Who knows what it might be down the road?
Some reading verse 874 of Sn 4.11 might think it is a meaningless bit of information.
To them it may mean a whole lot more when they read that 4th jhana makes one move through walls, ascend mountains, or walk on water, or transports one to heavenly realms. To me these things are merely poetic elaborations, that hides the truth.

To me
There is a state where form ceases to exist,
said the Buddha,
It is a state without ordinary perception
and without disordered perception
and without no perception and without any
annihilation of perception.
does not sound like a preparatory stage; to you, it appears to be so.
So be it, as long as we are walking towards the end of suffering.
auto wrote
The quote 874 in your post i think names the pitfalls before one notices the pure state of nirvana what reveals completely different outlook and the surangama quote in your post is the fruition of the moment one notices that pure state leading to the end of samsaric mind.
With love :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:30 pm I think each one of us try to translate the words of suttas to the best of our ability,
into our own internal dialogue, in a language that only we understand.
Each sutta has layers of meaning. One's understanding improves with one's spiritual maturity.
For instance I see the suttas in a clearer light now than I did before. Who knows what it might be down the road?
Some reading verse 874 of Sn 4.11 might think it is a meaningless bit of information.
To them it may mean a whole lot more when they read that 4th jhana makes one move through walls, ascend mountains, or walk on water, or transports one to heavenly realms. To me these things are merely poetic elaborations, that hides the truth.

To me
There is a state where form ceases to exist,
said the Buddha,
It is a state without ordinary perception
and without disordered perception
and without no perception and without any
annihilation of perception.
does not sound like a preparatory stage; to you, it appears to be so.
So be it, as long as we are walking towards the end of suffering.
auto wrote
The quote 874 in your post i think names the pitfalls before one notices the pure state of nirvana what reveals completely different outlook and the surangama quote in your post is the fruition of the moment one notices that pure state leading to the end of samsaric mind.
With love :candle:
"the state" doesn't refer to a state per se. It is when any state is purified it then belongs to the all(sense organs and their objects) and is not worthy to consider as a support for developing mind, hence form ceases to exist because of not clinging. Clinging is a condition for existence.

Funny it is or how bad it is you don't want to hear it, but in my opinion it is a reference to the peak of perception and touching cessation with the body, the moment there is an opening.
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Auto wrote
Funny it is or how bad it is you don't want to hear it, but in my opinion it is a reference to the peak of perception and touching cessation with the body, the moment there is an opening
why repeat my entire comment? Pl. don't do that, it is a waste of time and space? Surely we are grown ups and have attention spans longer than 5 seconds.
What exactly is it that I don't want to hear??? If I did not want to hear from you, I would not have responded to you. I thought you had something helpful to contribute.
You wrote
in my opinion it is a reference to the peak of perception and touching cessation with the body, the moment there is an opening.
What is the opening you are referring to?
My entire comment had nothing to do with peak of perception, nor touching cessation with the body. In fact my comment was about dropping all worldly perception. What is the body you are talking about?
Form disappears in 4th jhana, there is no naming there. How can worldly consciousness appear?
Are you importing some other teachings into the dialogue, because what you say has nothing to do with 4th jhana as laid out in Kalahavivada sutta Sn 4.11.
OK let us do this an intelligent manner. Can you summarize the first two suttas, SN22.101 and SN 47.42 that I laid out in leading to discussion of Sn 4.11, just to make sure we are on the same page. Or else we are wasting each other's time.
Be well :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:36 pm I thought you had something helpful to contribute.
sorry then
Pulsar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:36 pm Form disappears in 4th jhana, there is no naming there. How can worldly consciousness appear?
..
I guess the same way you wake up from a sleep and come conscious of a body. Except with meditation you reach the limits of the perception and then cessation happens - there is opening, through what mind enters the body and you come to the senses.

Human body is for to realize awakening but with body you won't find the truth. Body is to be disregarded is about getting rid of the fetters of sensual desire.
Pulsar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:36 pm My entire comment had nothing to do with peak of perception, nor touching cessation with the body.
you infer the quote of 874 to be about 4th jhana and you are so sure about it.
Pulsar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:36 pm Can you summarize the first two suttas, SN22.101 and SN 47.42 that I laid out in leading to discussion of Sn 4.11, just to make sure we are on the same page. Or else we are wasting each other's time.
perhaps you want to tell me why in one case the mind is to be freed(vimutti)
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.101/en/sujato wrote: If only my mind was freed from the defilements by not grasping!’ Even so, their mind is not freed from defilements by not grasping.
‘aho vata me anupādāya āsavehi cittaṁ vimucceyyā’ti, atha khvassa neva anupādāya āsavehi cittaṁ vimuccati.
Why is that?
Taṁ kissa hetu?
It’s because they’re undeveloped.
‘Abhāvitattā’ tissa vacanīyaṁ.
and in the other case it is the end of the mind?
https://suttacentral.net/sn47.42/en/sujato wrote:The mind originates from name and form.
Nāmarūpasamudayā cittassa samudayo;
When name and form cease, the mind ends.
nāmarūpanirodhā cittassa atthaṅgamo.
i guess that the mind will just appear again and again dependent on the sense organ and its object but now you know also its ending(passing away) and thus its not worth clinging to from the get go without needing to go through the hassle of immobilizing your thoughts.
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

It is quite illuminating how a sutta can be interpreted in multiple ways to suit one's needs.
For instance the reason I selected Adze handle was to point out the difference between right meditation and wrong meditation...
Let us check out this passage.
Suppose there was a chicken with eight or ten or twelve eggs.
But she had not properly sat on them to keep them warm and incubated.

That chicken might wish:
‘If only my chicks could break out of the eggshell with their claws and beak and hatch safely!’ But they can’t break out and hatch safely. Why is that? Because that chicken with eight or ten or twelve eggs has not properly sat on them to keep them warm and incubated.
Now in commenting on this, I can surely say that the chicks who are locked within their eggshells
are the ones who have not been rightly incubated.
  • They are like the meditators who are locked within their shells of ignorance due to their inability to understand neither right meditation nor right Samadhi.
Resorting to meditation on Arupas of Alara K or Uddka R orientation, believing these can help break through the eggshell of ignorance???
These chicks are destined to be locked within their eggshells, never break through their ignorance. Arupas of the above kind cannot lead one to Nibbana. Let me fetch a sutta from the canon that reveals Buddha's opinion
of these teachers, later though.
Sutta also continues
In the same way, when a mendicant is not committed to development, they might wish:
‘If only my mind was freed from the defilements by not grasping!’
Even so, their mind is not freed from defilements by not grasping. Why is that?
It’s because they’re undeveloped. Undeveloped in what? Undeveloped in the four kinds of mindfulness meditation, the four right efforts, the four bases of psychic power, the five faculties, the five powers, the seven awakening factors, and the noble eightfold path.
This clearly says without patiently developing the 37 factors of awakening, there is little hope for those chicks locked within their pure white eggshells. The meditators who engage in pre buddhist Arupas, do not have faith in the 8-fold path.
Those who are grasping methods of meditation such as "Those Arupas" will never learn how to meditate
according to the way Sammasambuddha awakened, under the Bodhi tree.
They have not bothered with developing awakening factors.
Further Adze handle sutta writes one has to be like a ship abandoned in order
to gain insight?
Suppose there was a sea-faring ship bound together with ropes.
For six months they deteriorated in the water. Then in the cold season it was hauled up on dry land,
where the ropes were weathered by wind and sun.
When the clouds soaked it with rain, the ropes would readily collapse and rot away.
In the same way, when a mendicant is committed to development their fetters readily collapse and rot away.”
The 'ship' is a beautiful metaphor on wearing away of the fetters that bind one to the sensual world.
One engaged in 4th jhana is far away from the sensory world. Auto wrote
It is when any state is purified it then belongs to the all(sense organs and their objects) and is not worthy to consider as a support for developing mind, hence form ceases to exist because of not clinging. Clinging is a condition for existence.
What is the relevance of bringing up the 6 sense bases in discussing 4th jhana? What is the relevance of bringing in clinging, when we are discussing 4th jhana? The meditator in 4th jhana is un-clung, like the ship which has its ropes collapsed and rotted away.
Be well :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:04 pm One engaged in 4th jhana is far away from the sensory world. Auto wrote
It is when any state is purified it then belongs to the all(sense organs and their objects) and is not worthy to consider as a support for developing mind, hence form ceases to exist because of not clinging. Clinging is a condition for existence.
What is the relevance of bringing up the 6 sense bases in discussing 4th jhana? What is the relevance of bringing in clinging, when we are discussing 4th jhana? The meditator in 4th jhana is un-clung, like the ship which has its ropes collapsed and rotted away.
Be well :candle:
mindfulness meditation is for to purify(visuddhi) sentient beings,
https://suttacentral.net/sn47.43/en/sujato wrote:‘The four kinds of mindfulness meditation are the path to convergence. They are in order to purify sentient beings, to get past sorrow and crying, to make an end of pain and sadness, to end the cycle of suffering, and to realize extinguishment.’
‘ekāyanvāyaṁ maggo sattānaṁ visuddhiyā sokaparidevānaṁ samatikkamāya dukkhadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamāya ñāyassa adhigamāya nibbānassa sacchikiriyāya, yadidaṁ—cattāro satipaṭṭhānā.
4th jhāna standard description,
https://suttacentral.net/sn40.4/en/sujato wrote:What is the fourth absorption?
Katamaṁ nu kho catutthaṁ jhānanti?
It occurred to me:
Tassa mayhaṁ, āvuso, etadahosi:
‘It’s when, giving up pleasure and pain, and ending former happiness and sadness, a mendicant enters and remains in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness.
‘idha bhikkhu sukhassa ca pahānā dukkhassa ca pahānā pubbeva somanassadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamā adukkhamasukhaṁ upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.
upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ
parisuddha - purified

With that noble 8 fold path(cycle of suffering) comes to an end.
https://suttacentral.net/sn47.42/en/sujato wrote:“Mendicants, I will teach you the origin and the ending of the four kinds of mindfulness meditation.
“Catunnaṁ, bhikkhave, satipaṭṭhānānaṁ samudayañca atthaṅgamañca desessāmi.
Listen …
Taṁ suṇātha.

And what is the origin of the body?
Ko ca, bhikkhave, kāyassa samudayo?
...
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

I bring in a sutta that points in the direction of Samma Samadhi,
or the effort involved in getting there,
sutta on Adze handle SN 22.101.
You Auto, seem unable to fathom the depth of this sutta.
In response you bring in the standard description of 4th jhana.
What is the point in talking of what is at the top of the mountain. We are stuck at the bottom of the mountain, a long way to go. 
You bring in a verse of SN 47.42 which is fine, and leave it at that, which is not fine.
It begins with 
"With the origination of food,
there is the origination of body, with the cessation of food the body vanishes"
the first establishment of Mindfulness.
What does this mean to you? Does it mean
with the origin of rice or pasta or a papaya, a human body originates,
and with the disappearance of pasta, rice or papaya,
the body vanishes?

Help with the  discussion if you want to participate, and stay on topic.
If you don't, I will simply ignore your future comments, since these are not conducive to the end of suffering, but just to the enhancement of Auto's ego. I am not interested in the latter.
At the beginning of the month you wrote on this thread.
But on the other hand within closed doors Pulsar walks his domesticated dog to a forest. Claiming hindu's stealing from Suttas,
it could be because Pulsars descriptions of jhana sound
more hindu tradition than canon
.
Go on, prove that Pulsar is describing Hindu Jhana. If you cannot handle the depth of these two suttas which has nothing to do with Hinduism, pl remove yourself from this discussion.
Don't bite off more than you can chew, not a good idea.
Best  :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:27 pm You bring in a verse of SN 47.42 which is fine, and leave it at that, which is not fine.
I did that to supplement what i said, not for to cater to what you want to hear.
Pulsar wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:27 pm Go on, prove that Pulsar is describing Hindu Jhana.
you are writing here 1-4 jhana is objectless meditation,
Pulsar wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:54 pm Breath is brought in, as an aspect of vitaka, vicara of the first jhana.
It might be the influence of Upanishads that some describe breath as almost "a Pranayama practice", i.e. control of breath, or as an object to begin with.
All these meditations (samma sati, same samadhi) are objectless meditations.
after i quoted to you about nirvikalpa according to the Patanjali being meditation without an object, you then admitted that you are using hindu descriptions,
Pulsar wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:12 am Auto wrote
bashing hindus using hindus
why not? it is fair game. You guys have tried to demote and demean us, over 2500 years, even as Buddha lived, and later, infused our canon with things untrue.
I said bashing hindu using hindu because your usual narrative is that the hindus are tampering with the suttas.
Pulsar
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Re: Jhana

Post by Pulsar »

Auto Let us give up this conversation. You are plainly clueless of the subject of this thread,
and I am clueless about the way you are trying to prove the 4 buddhist jhanas are creations of Lord Vishnu.
  • Unless you are willing to return to Right View to begin with, I am done.
4 buddhist jhanas do not sit in a vacuum. First comes right view, then comes right intention..Right Sati etc
Those who try to do 4 jhanas without understanding these, are groping in the dark.
Perhaps that is why there is a category called Wrong Samadhi in MN 117
You never understood Right View? Right?
What is the point of bringing in Pranayama (little phrases from the past without context), into the conversation, unless you want to change the topic to
  • Breath meditation the Buddha way
Leave Pranayama aside, spend some time with Sutta Pitaka instead of Bhagavat Githa, Upanisads and the self that will join with Brahma. Buddha had absolutely no regard for Brahma.
He made fun of him/her. Neither did he care for Uddaka Ramaputta and company. He made
fun of them too. Buddha rejected their formless meditations.
Take care! :candle:
auto
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Re: Jhana

Post by auto »

Pulsar wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:18 pm You are plainly clueless of the subject of this thread
Sutta says similes are for the wise. I think it is dangerous to rely on them for guessing the meaning without understanding standard jhana descriptions.
Pulsar wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:18 pm I am clueless about the way you are trying to prove the 4 buddhist jhanas are creations of Lord Vishnu.
This shows why you should not rely on the similes to interpret what similes mean.
Pulsar wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:18 pm Auto Let us give up this conversation.
yes, so don't reply
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