fear of jhana means?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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confusedlayman
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fear of jhana means?

Post by confusedlayman »

what is fear of jhana? it means people afraid of too much pleasure or they gonna die?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Alīno
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Re: fear of jhana means?

Post by Alīno »

Hello :anjali:

Good question ! :)

If I understand well, when mind "falls" into absorbtion, the piti is so strong that not trained mind looses "control" and this causes "panic" to arise.
While mind still grasping on pleasure and pain, because of that huge amount of pleasure it looses his concentration on object and follow the tsunami of pleasure. This tsunami causes fear/panic to arise.

To overcome this panic/fear one need to keep his mind on meditative object to be able to go throught this pleasure "wall".
If mind looses object it smashes against the wall, like water mellon. But if it stay with object mind goes throught the wall like a needle through the cloth.

Meditation object protects mind from 5 hindrances.
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
Nobodyisspecial
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Re: fear of jhana means?

Post by Nobodyisspecial »

You're probably not going to get jhana if you feel guilty about pleasure, hence you will not have fear of experiencimg pleasure that is controllable. There is some potential mental health adverse reactions to jhana, like piti not getting turned off for a year. This could cause fear if one is cautious about one's own well being.

I think one must be relaxed and prepared enough to die to enter jhana. If you are not prepared to die and face your non theistic theological state of the after life when you do die than you are not ready enough to enter jhana. That would hence cause fear of death when approaching jhana.

What do you think?
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bodom
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Re: fear of jhana means?

Post by bodom »

In the Laṭukikopama Sutta The Buddha clearly says that the pleasure that arises from jhana should be persued and not be feared. It is pleasure based on renunciation:
“Here, Udāyin, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna…With the stilling of applied and sustained thought, he enters upon and abides in the second jhāna…With the fading away as well of rapture…he enters upon and abides in the third jhāna…With the abandoning of pleasure and pain…he enters upon and abides in the fourth jhāna… “This is called the bliss of renunciation, the bliss of seclusion, the bliss of peace, the bliss of enlightenment. I say of this kind of pleasure that it should be pursued, that it should be developed, that it should be cultivated, that it should not be feared.
:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

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SarathW
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Re: fear of jhana means?

Post by SarathW »

Some Buddhist schools discourage Jhana practice thinking that it will be an addiction like a drug hence the practioner will not move into Vipassana Bhavana. They also think that Jhana is not necessary for liberation. Jhana practitioners will be reborn in Brhama worlds unless they become Sotapanna etc.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Akashad
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Re: fear of jhana means?

Post by Akashad »

I am not sure if the fear here is related to too much pleasure but i interpret it as a "very real visceral fear" like a strong panic,flight or fight reaction that arises because the Ego disappears, but fortunately in that state everything is suppressed and oddly frozen, so panic will take ages to reach the surface or "Ego" for the Ego to do anything about.Ego has been momentarily disabled so whatever arises is like just floating with no owner or centre.Also a fear cause you've never existed in such a way or state as jhana. It's very different than day to day consciousness. Like we take ourselves with us EVERYWHERE We go. i have had Near Death Experience and you STILL have a sense of self when you die.It's actually more pronounced.In jhana.That's not there.That sense of self.So when Jhana arises it's like the fear of death.It gets better with practice because we will be accustomed to letting go but for meditators new to jhana fear can arise. Not during Jhana,before Jhana and after or whatever stuck state that follows jhana before it lets you back to day to day consciousness fear and panic can arise it will just be immobilised and frozen so you can't do anything about it.You can't move.

So there's very few moments in our lives where the Ego dissapears and Jhana is one of them.So we get scared.By we i mean the EGO.You can't separate I from the EGO it's like a parasite. I know people think that the EGO and they are separate their not. You just have a meditator EGo or Buddhist Ego or WHolesome Ego or a Saint Ego or a Boddhisatva Ego.Doesn't matter.It's still an EGO.

This is why it's so important to attain stream entry because you just look at the EGO differently.You see it as something that comes and goes and not solid at all.Samsara is an issue of Distorted Perception we're not looking at things correctly.The Eight Noble Path leads us to a vantage point where we can see reality as it is and everything falls away.This world is empty.

It's probably not as easy as i explained and not as accurate.

I have mostly heard from teachers like Ajahn Brahm and Shaila Catherine that when dealing with this kind of fear is to "Trust the Process" and Let Go of the Wheel. The Driver which is the Ego needs to be let go..and you need to be just the Vehicle with no Driver.

As for Fear due to extreme pleasure from Jhana. :shrug: I feel like there's worst kind of pleasures to be worried about like alcohol and gambling and hedonism i mean being worried about the pleasure that comes from Jhana..i am sorry...but we can totally do worse.

Also the pleasure that comes from Jhana isn't as coarse.

I feel that Jhana isn't an option.

To Let go of the Coarse Pleasures of the World you need A Substitute.

You don't just go from THE PLEASURES OF THE WORLD--------> STraight to NIbbanna.

you need a Medium..or something in between.. to trade it in with..

You trade in Coarse Pleasures for SUblime Ones....and then you trade sublime pleasures for the pleasure of no pleasure.

In Buddhism we always hear Let Go Let Go Let Go.

There's No Such Thing.

For an unlightened being.

WHen you Let go of something you cling to something else.

It's just that something is more subtle.

It's a game of grasping the lighter object till it's almost weightless till your not even grasping anything and then to the point where you don't see the need to grasp and then to the point where there isn't even a you to engage in the act of grasping.

Take for instance,Why do People Renounce?

We equate renunciation with pain and emptiness but REally if we practice renunciation there IS SOME KIND OF PLEASURE in it.It's called RELIEF.

People have a lesser burden.They feel light and weightless. This is PLEASURE.

We shouldn't fear Jhana at all in terms of Pleasure.

There is no other pleasure we can hold on to that will lead us to enlightenment. Because if we are not holding on to Jhanas we are holding on to something else.Always.If your not enlightened there is NO letting go.Your just grasping something else perhaps more subtle but still something.So in the end..

Choose the better option.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: fear of jhana means?

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:00 pm what is fear of jhana? it means people afraid of too much pleasure or they gonna die?
Fear of letting go.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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