How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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confusedlayman
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How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

i read many people post quites and commentries and debate of jhana. But how many really tried following the instruction if jhana and had progressed atleast little bit? Is it really working from ur exp?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Spiny Norman »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:44 pm i read many people post quites and commentries and debate of jhana. But how many really tried following the instruction if jhana and had progressed atleast little bit? Is it really working from ur exp?
I've experienced jhana on retreat, but not at home. Some interesting experiences, but not conclusive, IMO.
For me, satipatthana practice has been more revealing over time.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Zom »

post quites and commentries and debate of jhana.
This is because they don't attain it -)
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DooDoot
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by DooDoot »

Dinsdale wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:13 pm I've experienced jhana on retreat... but not conclusive, IMO.
Per the above description, this sounds like an overestimation because it appears the hindrance of doubt remained. Also, I imagine the mind rather than the ego experiences jhana. The 'self' or 'I' is born from attachment to jhana (called rupabhava) rather than experiences jhana.
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:44 pm Is it really working from ur exp?
I (ego) have never tried (craving) to attain jhana.
Dinsdale wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:13 pmBut how many really tried following the instruction if jhana
The Buddha's instruction was to let go of craving for jhana. Since the Buddha instructed this, I am confident it works.
And what is the faculty of concentration? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, making it his object to let go, attains concentration, attains singleness of mind. Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters & remains in the first jhana...

SN 48.10
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SarathW
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by SarathW »

The way I understand we all experience some sort of lower Jhana for a very brief time.
To move upwards you must be able to keep your Jhana for a longer period.
Your level of happiness is a good indication of your level of Jhana.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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confusedlayman wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:44 pm i read many people post quites and commentries and debate of jhana. But how many really tried following the instruction if jhana and had progressed atleast little bit? Is it really working from ur exp?
Of course, it works.

Since this art is nowadays partly forgotten, it takes a lot of textual research to clarify what it is and how to attain it. Hence, the debate can sometimes be quite useful.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Dinsdale wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:13 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:44 pm i read many people post quites and commentries and debate of jhana. But how many really tried following the instruction if jhana and had progressed atleast little bit? Is it really working from ur exp?
I've experienced jhana on retreat, but not at home. Some interesting experiences, but not conclusive, IMO.
For me, satipatthana practice has been more revealing over time.
very good to hear. is it retreat by monk or lay teacher?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:10 pm The way I understand we all experience some sort of lower Jhana for a very brief time.
To move upwards you must be able to keep your Jhana for a longer period.
Your level of happiness is a good indication of your level of Jhana.
true. but mastery in entering, exit, staying, reviewing and someother is needed. if atleast entering alone is mastered its a amazing thing and nibbana will be on just verge of attaining. I am particularly focused in Entering at will state.. if only that is perfected then no problem in acheiving arhantship in this life time.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:54 am true. but mastery in entering, exit, staying, reviewing and someother is needed. if atleast entering alone is mastered its a amazing thing and nibbana will be on just verge of attaining. I am particularly focused in Entering at will state.. if only that is perfected then no problem in acheiving arhantship in this life time.
That might be your next obsession, after obsession with emptiness. Anyway, maybe jana is more appropriate for you than emptiness. You'll see.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:52 am very good to hear. is it retreat by monk or lay teacher?
Take care with claims on the internet. Many overestimate jhana. The Buddha said jhana leads to loss of temptation towards sensuality.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Spiny Norman »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:52 am
Dinsdale wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:13 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:44 pm i read many people post quites and commentries and debate of jhana. But how many really tried following the instruction if jhana and had progressed atleast little bit? Is it really working from ur exp?
I've experienced jhana on retreat, but not at home. Some interesting experiences, but not conclusive, IMO.
For me, satipatthana practice has been more revealing over time.
very good to hear. is it retreat by monk or lay teacher?
Both, since I'm referring to a number of different retreats. It was the consequence of doing a lot of sitting practice each day, something I don't seem to manage at home.

In relation to your OP, I don't think you can try to attain jhana, it's more like something which arises when the conditions are right.

I would suggest that a solid sitting practice is the most important requisite here, along with guidance from experienced practitioners - I recall Ajahn Brahm has some useful pointers for example.
Last edited by Spiny Norman on Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:16 am
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:54 am true. but mastery in entering, exit, staying, reviewing and someother is needed. if atleast entering alone is mastered its a amazing thing and nibbana will be on just verge of attaining. I am particularly focused in Entering at will state.. if only that is perfected then no problem in acheiving arhantship in this life time.
That might be your next obsession, after obsession with emptiness. Anyway, maybe jana is more appropriate for you than emptiness. You'll see.
why do you says so? its because jhana cannot come from intellectual understanding but emptiness is intelectual? can u help me with emptiness then?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by SteRo »

confusedlayman wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:59 am can u help me with emptiness then?
I have already said everything in the "connected paths" and in the "personal experience" section of this forum. If you didn't get the appropriate meaning merely repeating these words won't reveal it. Emptiness certainly isn't a topic for any of the Theravada sections.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

SteRo wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:47 am
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:59 am can u help me with emptiness then?
I have already said everything in the "connected paths" and in the "personal experience" section of this forum. If you didn't get the appropriate meaning merely repeating these words won't reveal it. Emptiness certainly isn't a topic for any of the Theravada sections.
Ok. I think i didnt read properly. i will see it again. What you think of jhana method and which one u use?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by dharmacorps »

if you try to "attain" the jhanas, you won't experience them.
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