How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Inedible
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

Also, there is a Mahayana teaching that living guides in the present are kinder than the Buddha himself. It is a question of availability. Reading Suttas directly often leads to more questions than answers when I actually try to put it in practice. It isn't like I can email Buddha to ask for details.
coconut
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by coconut »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:39 am
coconut wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:14 pm is it possible for someone not addicted to jhana but addicted to sensual stimulations? any sutta reference?
The Buddha said you should focus on attaining jhanas, he even said that wherever you attain jhanas, you should stay there for life.
What do u mean? Stay there for life?
Yes. It's in MN17

He's saying wherever you attain jhanas and get food easily, that's where you should stay until you die.
Take another case of a mendicant who lives close by a jungle thicket. Their mindfulness becomes established … And the necessities of life are easy to come by. That mendicant should reflect: ‘While living close by this jungle thicket, my mindfulness becomes established … And the necessities of life are easy to come by.’ That mendicant should stay in that jungle thicket for the rest of their life; they shouldn’t leave.
Take another case of a mendicant who lives supported by an individual. As they do so, their mindfulness becomes established, their mind becomes immersed in samādhi, their defilements come to an end, and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary. And the necessities of life that a renunciate requires—robes, alms-food, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick—are easy to come by. That mendicant should reflect: ‘While living supported by this person, my mindfulness becomes established … And the necessities of life are easy to come by.’ That mendicant should follow that person for the rest of their life. They shouldn’t leave them, even if sent away.”
coconut
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by coconut »

Inedible wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:41 am Also, there is a Mahayana teaching that living guides in the present are kinder than the Buddha himself. It is a question of availability. Reading Suttas directly often leads to more questions than answers when I actually try to put it in practice. It isn't like I can email Buddha to ask for details.
Not really, the suttas are very detailed, they're just scattered around the 4 nikayas and you need to put them together. Honestly it sounds like you're lazy and looking for excuses.

Hearing the true dhamma is a requirement for attaining right view which is needed for attaining the path of stream entry.

No one will do the work for you, no one can make you understand, and as the dhammapada says no one can purify another. If you don't do the work yourself then you're just using this forum to mentally masturbate as a form of escapism.

The Dhamma-Viharin sutta says how one "dwells" in the dhamma, and that's

1) Read the suttas
2) Attain jhanas

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

But you're looking for gurus with "personal experience", but the Buddha warned against that. He said famous teachers can have wrong views, and are not to be trusted. Since you are ignorant, you are blind, you don't know who is telling the truth or not, that's why you can only rely on true dhamma, the suttas. That's why the Buddha said, when someone says something, don't accept it, don't reject it, compare it to the suttas.


That's all you need to do: 1) read suttas 2) attain jhanas
Inedible
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

coconut wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:57 am Honestly it sounds like you're lazy and looking for excuses.
Now you are just being rude. All I am asking for is some success stories for inspiration. In over thirty years I haven't met one person who has attained jhana. I've only heard of people who have and read their books. It amazes me how many Buddhists I have met who don't know the word jhana. I read the middle length Suttas for the first time a couple of months ago. My plan is to practice some more and read them again. If we were talking about developing any other skill, would you give me so much trouble for asking who has actually done it? I've never even met a Theravada Buddhist in person. I've met two people who have studied The Book of Urantia and about a dozen Eckists. Or whatever they call themselves on the path of Eckankar. So I'm feeling a little isolated.
coconut
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by coconut »

Inedible wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:15 am
coconut wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:57 am Honestly it sounds like you're lazy and looking for excuses.
Now you are just being rude. All I am asking for is some success stories for inspiration. In over thirty years I haven't met one person who has attained jhana. I've only heard of people who have and read their books. It amazes me how many Buddhists I have met who don't know the word jhana. I read the middle length Suttas for the first time a couple of months ago. My plan is to practice some more and read them again. If we were talking about developing any other skill, would you give me so much trouble for asking who has actually done it? I've never even met a Theravada Buddhist in person. I've met two people who have studied The Book of Urantia and about a dozen Eckists. Or whatever they call themselves on the path of Eckankar. So I'm feeling a little isolated.
Well I can tell you from personal experience from studying suttas and meditating for 20 years and even living out of monestaries: jhanas exist, rebirth exists, devas exist, past life memories exist.

The suttas are detailed, you just have to find them. The Buddha uses metaphors to explain the meaning of things.

Here are suttas that tell you how to meditate with detail

- https://suttacentral.net/sn47.20/en/bodhi
- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
- Kayagata sati sutta
- MN 18-MN20

And there's a lot more too, but it all begins with placing and keeping your attention on the four foundations, which starts with the body.
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StrivingforMonkhood
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by StrivingforMonkhood »

The Jhanas are somewhat like what the Mahayanas in the Tibetan traditions call Dzogchen. I am not sure if the Zen/Chan/Seon traditions have an equivalent, as they're all quite simplistic: Shikantaza meditation (the Japanese Zen term).

I know the Jhanas are real. I know the Dhamma is real. I know that the only way to be liberated comes from the Holy Buddha's teachings. The Dhamma is the only way to solve human problems. No other spiritual path in the world shows us the direct way to liberation, which comes from understanding ultimate reality and the emptiness of all phenomena.

Much love to you all! :anjali:
May we all fulfill our deepest wish for happiness

We are already Buddha
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by befriend »

Last night I did Leigh braisingtons method of jhana where you generate a pleasant feeling and just be with it experience it and stay there I did this for like 25 minutes an it was pleasant and I got some chills once I feel better this morning i don't think it was jhana jhana but it was a pleasant experience I chanted namo Tassa bhagavato arahato samasambuddassa and then just thought praise buddha...Praise buddha...etc for a while and I was intentionally smiling and felt good feelings in my head then I just felt it. when I stopped I noticed the pleasant feelings fading away and then when I was doing vipassana my awareness was noticeably clearer and it was easier to hear sounds, cars drive by and see their impermanence. Not sure if it's jhana but it is Samatha and it helped my vipassana.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

befriend wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:20 pm Last night I did Leigh braisingtons method of jhana where you generate a pleasant feeling and just be with it experience it and stay there I did this for like 25 minutes an it was pleasant and I got some chills once I feel better this morning i don't think it was jhana jhana but it was a pleasant experience I chanted namo Tassa bhagavato arahato samasambuddassa and then just thought praise buddha...Praise buddha...etc for a while and I was intentionally smiling and felt good feelings in my head then I just felt it. when I stopped I noticed the pleasant feelings fading away and then when I was doing vipassana my awareness was noticeably clearer and it was easier to hear sounds, cars drive by and see their impermanence. Not sure if it's jhana but it is Samatha and it helped my vipassana.
wow keep it up
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

the transition from normal wakefulness to pre jhana access concentration (hypnagogia state) is toughest one in entire training of right concentration.

once that state is reached, 5 sense off already in that state and jhana is instant ON if needed ....

anyone has tips to enter that state relatively easy?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

In hypnagogia your brain has slowed to 4-7 Hz, the theta range. You can use brainwave entrainment tools to reach it, but that has nothing to do with suppressing the five hindrances. It is not access concentration. You pass through it every time you go from awake to asleep, even if it is just a very short interval. It is called hypnopompia when going from asleep to awake.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Inedible wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:31 pm In hypnagogia your brain has slowed to 4-7 Hz, the theta range. You can use brainwave entrainment tools to reach it, but that has nothing to do with suppressing the five hindrances. It is not access concentration. You pass through it every time you go from awake to asleep, even if it is just a very short interval. It is called hypnopompia when going from asleep to awake.
the point is u need to be aware of that state, if u in deep sleep u won't notice it and hence no use
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

Hypnagogia is a great way to enter into wake induced lucid dreams. It has nothing to do with jhana.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Inedible wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:00 am Hypnagogia is a great way to enter into wake induced lucid dreams. It has nothing to do with jhana.
quiet secluded from sensuality can be done in that state when 5 sense off completely but mind is aware..
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Pondera
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Pondera »

I have returned after months of personal investigation and growth.

I agree that dream jhana is possible. I have had several experiences in dreams where the nimitta is quite clear and it is easy to access. The resulting joy and rapture is palatable.

Regarding waking Jhanas. The following might be useful. I am endured to this sutta.
"The knowledge of destruction with respect to destruction has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge of destruction? 'Emancipation' should be the reply.

"Emancipation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for emancipation? 'Dispassion' should be the reply.

"Dispassion, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for dispassion? 'Disenchantment' should be the reply.

"Disenchantment, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for disenchantment? 'The knowledge and vision of things as they really are' should be the reply.

"The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.

"Concentration, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for concentration? 'Happiness' should be the reply.

"Happiness, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for happiness? 'Tranquillity' should be the reply.

"Tranquillity, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for tranquillity? 'Rapture' should be the reply.

"Rapture, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for rapture? 'Joy' should be the reply.

"Joy, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for joy? 'Faith' should be the reply.

"Faith, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for faith? 'Suffering' should be the reply.

"Suffering, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for suffering? 'Birth' should be the reply.

"And what is the supporting condition for birth?. 'Existence' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for existence? 'Clinging' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for clinging? 'Craving' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for craving? 'Feeling' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for feeling? 'Contact' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for contact? 'The sixfold sense base' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for the sixfold sense base? 'Mentality-materiality' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for mentality-materiality? 'Consciousness' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for consciousness? 'Kamma formations' should be the reply.

"Kamma formations, monks, also have a supporting condition, I say, they do not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for kamma formations? 'Ignorance' should be the reply.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el277.html

For “soft jhanas” there is an easy way to induce rapture and pleasure by merely manipulating certain nervous epicentres of the body - such as the bottom of the heart - or the vagus nerve in the neck.

I have had ongoing success cascading through the stages of transcendental dependent origination by merely suspending nervous activity in - for example - the bottom of the heart - or the vagus nerve in the neck.

I have not, however, achieved the kind of “orgasmic bliss” or “power” enabled by a dream like jhanic state - during my waking hours. I continue, none the less, to aspire to a clean and pure brightness of aura - as described in the fourth jhana.

Many blessings,

Pondera
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Pondera wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:22 am I have returned after months of personal investigation and growth.

I agree that dream jhana is possible. I have had several experiences in dreams where the nimitta is quite clear and it is easy to access. The resulting joy and rapture is palatable.

Regarding waking Jhanas. The following might be useful. I am endured to this sutta.
"The knowledge of destruction with respect to destruction has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge of destruction? 'Emancipation' should be the reply.

"Emancipation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for emancipation? 'Dispassion' should be the reply.

"Dispassion, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for dispassion? 'Disenchantment' should be the reply.

"Disenchantment, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for disenchantment? 'The knowledge and vision of things as they really are' should be the reply.

"The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.

"Concentration, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for concentration? 'Happiness' should be the reply.

"Happiness, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for happiness? 'Tranquillity' should be the reply.

"Tranquillity, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for tranquillity? 'Rapture' should be the reply.

"Rapture, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for rapture? 'Joy' should be the reply.

"Joy, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for joy? 'Faith' should be the reply.

"Faith, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for faith? 'Suffering' should be the reply.

"Suffering, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for suffering? 'Birth' should be the reply.

"And what is the supporting condition for birth?. 'Existence' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for existence? 'Clinging' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for clinging? 'Craving' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for craving? 'Feeling' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for feeling? 'Contact' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for contact? 'The sixfold sense base' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for the sixfold sense base? 'Mentality-materiality' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for mentality-materiality? 'Consciousness' should be the reply.

"What is the supporting condition for consciousness? 'Kamma formations' should be the reply.

"Kamma formations, monks, also have a supporting condition, I say, they do not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for kamma formations? 'Ignorance' should be the reply.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el277.html

For “soft jhanas” there is an easy way to induce rapture and pleasure by merely manipulating certain nervous epicentres of the body - such as the bottom of the heart - or the vagus nerve in the neck.

I have had ongoing success cascading through the stages of transcendental dependent origination by merely suspending nervous activity in - for example - the bottom of the heart - or the vagus nerve in the neck.

I have not, however, achieved the kind of “orgasmic bliss” or “power” enabled by a dream like jhanic state - during my waking hours. I continue, none the less, to aspire to a clean and pure brightness of aura - as described in the fourth jhana.

Many blessings,

Pondera
the I'm not taking about dream jhana

also, what you mean by nerves in bottom heart? did u physically stop the nerve? why so?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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