How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Pondera
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Pondera »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:58 am
Pondera wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:22 am I have returned after months of personal investigation and growth.

I agree that dream jhana is possible. I have had several experiences in dreams where the nimitta is quite clear and it is easy to access. The resulting joy and rapture is palatable.

Regarding waking Jhanas. The following might be useful. I am endured to this sutta.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el277.html

For “soft jhanas” there is an easy way to induce rapture and pleasure by merely manipulating certain nervous epicentres of the body - such as the bottom of the heart - or the vagus nerve in the neck.

I have had ongoing success cascading through the stages of transcendental dependent origination by merely suspending nervous activity in - for example - the bottom of the heart - or the vagus nerve in the neck.

I have not, however, achieved the kind of “orgasmic bliss” or “power” enabled by a dream like jhanic state - during my waking hours. I continue, none the less, to aspire to a clean and pure brightness of aura - as described in the fourth jhana.

Many blessings,

Pondera
the I'm not taking about dream jhana
I apologize. You’re talking about waking nimittas? Very hard to find and sustain.
also, what you mean by nerves in bottom heart? did u physically stop the nerve? why so?
I should rephrase. By suspending tension in the bottom of the heart the force of each heart beat and also the frequency of the heart beat decrease.

The heart has a feedback loop with the brain (facilitated by a triage of nerves). When the heart relaxes, the mind relaxes. It feels JOY in fact. From JOY we get RAPTURE - and so on.

This is my approach to jhana. I identify four areas where nervous activity can be manipulated and calmed. I generate a series of events which amount to a state of concentration. From concentration, I develop discernment.

My objects of meditation are the four colour kasinas and the wind kasina.
“Monk, the property of light, the property of beauty, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of space, the property of the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, the property of the dimension of nothingness: These properties are to be reached as perception attainments.[2] The property of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception is to be reached as a remnant-of-fabrications attainment. The property of the cessation of feeling & perception is to be reached as a cessation attainment."[3]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
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BlackMagic
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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Consider oneself/others as being continually; In and out of jhana then consider:

When all things are returnable to one what is the one returnable too?
Clearing out a rock knowing someone's footwear... Is a compassionate act. However; Leaving it there is also a compassionate act.

Hatred never ceases through hatred in this world, but ceases through not hating only. This is an eternal law.
(Love is not the opposite of hate)
Metta is giving; Dana is giving without expectation.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

BlackMagic wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:46 pm Consider oneself/others as being continually; In and out of jhana then consider:

When all things are returnable to one what is the one returnable too?
things can't return, they cease without reminder... another thing takes their place or occupies mind
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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BlackMagic
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by BlackMagic »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:20 pm
BlackMagic wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:46 pm Consider oneself/others as being continually; In and out of jhana then consider:

When all things are returnable to one what is the one returnable too?
things can't return, they cease without reminder... another thing takes their place or occupies mind
Phala phala phala monkey/man picking fruit... there is nirvana/nibbana with and without remainder.
Clearing out a rock knowing someone's footwear... Is a compassionate act. However; Leaving it there is also a compassionate act.

Hatred never ceases through hatred in this world, but ceases through not hating only. This is an eternal law.
(Love is not the opposite of hate)
Metta is giving; Dana is giving without expectation.
auto
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by auto »

Pondera wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:59 am
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:58 am the I'm not taking about dream jhana
I apologize. You’re talking about waking nimittas? Very hard to find and sustain.
He is talking about sleep paralysis. For him it is the waking state with senses being off and mind's awake. That is prolly why you didn't got confirmation from him if it is waking state or a dream. It is a state where he attempts to enter jhana.
So whenever he hears about descriptions of 'body being still..', 'senses are off during jhana' he thinks it is genuine, the right way.. will he listen someone who tells otherwise? nope, it is then wrong jhana in his opinion.
Now imagine the knowing of the impermanence of ones own convictions and then looking ways how to cease these. Once you see its impermanence i doubt one would hold on to following a hunch or feel that it is correct way to attain jhana instead it is a chain, a fetter what takes sense organs* as their objects.

*edit: sense consciousness as their object
https://suttacentral.net/vb16/en/thittila wrote:The basis of knowledge by way of singlefold division: The five types of sense consciousness are not roots; are not accompanied by roots; are not associated with roots; are with cause; are conditioned; are not material; are mundane; are objects of the defilements; are objects of the fetters; are objects of the ties; are objects of the floods; are objects of the bonds; are objects of the hindrances; are objects of the perversions; are objects of the graspings; are objects of the corruptions; are neither-skilful-nor-unskilful; have objects; are not volitional activities; are resultants; are grasped (by craving and false view), are objects of the graspings; are not corrupt, are objects of the corruptions;

are not “accompanied by initial application, accompanied by sustained application”; are not “without initial application, sustained application only”; are without initial application, without sustained application; are not accompanied by rapture; are not to be abandoned either by the first path or by the subsequent paths; have no roots to be abandoned either by the first path or by the subsequent paths; are neither cumulative nor dispersive (of continuing rebirth and death); are neither of the seven supramundane stages nor of the final supramundane stage; are low; are characteristic of the plane of desire; are not characteristic of the plane of form; are not characteristic of the formless plane; are included (i.e. are mundane); are not “not included” (i.e. not supramundane); are of no fixed (resultant time); do not tend to release.

Ekavidhena ñāṇavatthu—pañca viññāṇā na hetū, ahetukā, hetuvippayuttā, sappaccayā, saṅkhatā, arūpā, lokiyā, sāsavā, saṃyojaniyā, ganthaniyā, oghaniyā, yoganiyā, nīvaraṇiyā, parāmaṭṭhā, upādāniyā, saṃkilesikā, abyākatā, sārammaṇā, acetasikā, vipākā, upādinnupādāniyā, asaṃkiliṭṭhasaṃkilesikā, na savitakkasavicārā, na avitakkavicāramattā, avitakkaavicārā, na pītisahagatā, neva dassanena na bhāvanāya pahātabbā, neva dassanena na bhāvanāya pahātabbahetukā, nevācayagāmināpacayagāmino, nevasekkhanāsekkhā, parittā, kāmāvacarā, na rūpāvacarā, na arūpāvacarā, pariyāpannā, no apariyāpannā, aniyatā, aniyyānikā.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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With most reasonably interesting tasks it isn't that unusual to spend an hour or two or even three without having to stop or feeling strain. The moment I sit down and arrange my body to meditate the struggle begins. It is a fight from start to finish. And I really don't know why. Just the intent to start meditation seems to trigger the problem. But a book, a movie, a puzzle, a video game. I can sit quietly for hours and stay focused on the task without any trouble. I don't have trouble concentrating. Why is it so hard to take my existing ability and just transfer it over to the most important thing I can possibly do?
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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Inedible wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:52 pm With most reasonably interesting tasks it isn't that unusual to spend an hour or two or even three without having to stop or feeling strain. The moment I sit down and arrange my body to meditate the struggle begins. It is a fight from start to finish. And I really don't know why. Just the intent to start meditation seems to trigger the problem. But a book, a movie, a puzzle, a video game. I can sit quietly for hours and stay focused on the task without any trouble. I don't have trouble concentrating. Why is it so hard to take my existing ability and just transfer it over to the most important thing I can possibly do?
Think positive about benifits of meditation and show interest more so u can sit long .. or else normally while sleeping in night.. try to maintain awareness and let body asleep
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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i've had sort of dream nimitta as well. id dream that i do anapanasati and all field of perception goes white for a while, the white is all encompassing and persists until i wake up. It's what id expect white kasina to be like irl so i assume that the dream was like a visualization of my expectation and i am not sure how these are classified.
'Bhikkhus, possessing three qualities, a bhikkhu is practicing the unmistaken way and has laid the groundwork for the destruction of the taints. What three? Here, a bhikkhu guards the doors of the sense faculties, observes moderation in eating, and is intent on wakefulness. He should develop perception of unattractiveness so as to abandon lust... good will so as to abandon ill will... mindfulness of in-&-out breathing so as to cut off distractive thinking... the perception of inconstancy so as to uproot the conceit, 'I am.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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rightviewftw wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:04 am i've had sort of dream nimitta as well. id dream that i do anapanasati and all field of perception goes white for a while, the white is all encompassing and persists until i wake up. It's what id expect white kasina to be like irl so i assume that the dream was like a visualization of my expectation and i am not sure how these are classified.
Nimitta is just perception of white light or other object..
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Techniqies to acheive mental stillness?

Focus on breath or focus on background awareness of awwreness or focus on 3 signs or which one is best?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

Recently I realized that it didn't matter how long I was sitting to try to meditate. I just expect to fail, so too much of me spends the entire time just waiting to get up again. It wasn't like that the first time I sat up and decided to try it. It was before I'd read anything about how to do it. No one told me anything, either, but I just knew to start counting breaths. It worked. And then my mom opened the door and turned on the light and scared me in the process. She didn't approve. For several minutes, though, I was completely invested in the process.
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