How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
SteRo
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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confusedlayman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:32 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:25 am A good idea is perhaps to first attain sotapanna because then jhanas aren't an issue anymore but are attained effortlessly. If on the other hand one gets obsessed with jhanas but does not attain it due to kammic obstructions, neither sotapanna nor jhana might be ever attained.
I want to do jhana because i want to see 3 chsracteristic after emerging from it..
Wanting to see something might be an obsession as well.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:06 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:32 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:25 am A good idea is perhaps to first attain sotapanna because then jhanas aren't an issue anymore but are attained effortlessly. If on the other hand one gets obsessed with jhanas but does not attain it due to kammic obstructions, neither sotapanna nor jhana might be ever attained.
I want to do jhana because i want to see 3 chsracteristic after emerging from it..
Wanting to see something might be an obsession as well.
To make insight clear
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Inedible
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:25 am first attain sotapanna
Good idea if you know how to do it. Do you really know a way which is easier than jhana?
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:08 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:25 am first attain sotapanna
Good idea if you know how to do it. Do you really know a way which is easier than jhana?
metta
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coconut
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by coconut »

Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:08 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:25 am first attain sotapanna
Good idea if you know how to do it. Do you really know a way which is easier than jhana?

Being sotapanna sets up the foundation and ground work for attaining jhanas all the time.

I recommend you search the suttas for pamojja, as it is pamojja that links the virtue training to jhanas.

For example, why don't you go out and murder and rape people? Because you have habituated a set of values and actions taught to you by society since you were a child which mentally blocks you from performing such actions. However, had you been born in some third world countries, then murdering, stealing, and raping could be a possibility.

Now when you see indulging in sensual desires the same as raping and killing, and you haven't done it for a very very long time so that conditioned impulses/intentions no longer arise, then you have set the foundation for mastering jhanas.

In short, you need to become perfected in virtue and a minimalist.

Sotapanna though means you properly understand dependent origination, so I would read every sutta on that as well. Read the samma ditthi sutta.

It should click in your head that sensual desires are the root of unwholesome.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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If I don't get to the levels of meditation I seek in this life I am committed to keep trying even if that is in future rebirths. Don't give up! But keep a balanced approach with metta and relaxation towards oneself.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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It would be more convincing if you would say that the advice is coming from a Stream Enterer in possession of jhanas. Otherwise I'm going to think maybe you are just groping around in the dark like most people here.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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My big hindrance problem has always been sloth & torpor. Especially after my mind unwinds and I'm not disturbed by sense desires or aversion. Holding my breath, cold water, imagining bright light. Caffeine, ephedra, DHEA. Brainwave entrainment. I've tried all kinds of things. At one point in my life I'd sit to meditate and be asleep in less than thirty seconds. I'd start to dream before I hit the floor. Every time I tell myself this is it, I'm trying again, and I start sitting regularly it is this hindrance that kills it for me.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:03 am It would be more convincing if you would say that the advice is coming from a Stream Enterer in possession of jhanas. Otherwise I'm going to think maybe you are just groping around in the dark like most people here.
I have experienxed intense unlimited bliss indeoendent of 5 sence and independent of vitaka and vicara and i sae myself by reflection that when im in that state, sensual plane (our waking world with body) comepletly disappear without trace and when im in waking state (the non sensual bliss) comepletly disappear without trace... however this is not liberating insight because i saw absence of body and absence of certain feeling but not absence of all feeling, absence of conciousness, absence of perception etc ...

Hence there is no claim
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coconut
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by coconut »

Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:03 am It would be more convincing if you would say that the advice is coming from a Stream Enterer in possession of jhanas. Otherwise I'm going to think maybe you are just groping around in the dark like most people here.
I don't know who you're talking to, but personal experiences are irrelevant, they won't help your own, even if I did claim to be a jhana master. Therefore we look to what the suttas say as the authority, as they are the closest teachings to the Buddha.
Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:18 am My big hindrance problem has always been sloth & torpor. Especially after my mind unwinds and I'm not disturbed by sense desires or aversion. Holding my breath, cold water, imagining bright light. Caffeine, ephedra, DHEA. Brainwave entrainment. I've tried all kinds of things. At one point in my life I'd sit to meditate and be asleep in less than thirty seconds. I'd start to dream before I hit the floor. Every time I tell myself this is it, I'm trying again, and I start sitting regularly it is this hindrance that kills it for me.
It's because you indulge in sensual desires too much. Your brain is overly-stimulated, that when it doesn't receive its sufficient stimulation, it gets bored and falls asleep. You need to cool your brain down to the point that meditation seems like fun and interesting. You do that by seeing stimulation as stressful, you see activity as stressful.

For example video games, when I was younger I used to love playing video games, but now I see video games as work and frustration. Trying to control an outcome by jumping through hoops and chasing cookies, these all appear stressful to me.

Trying to attain jhanas while having a bad lifestyle is trying to put the cart before the horse.

Image

Also, if anything caffeine would hinder your ability to enter jhanas, since jhanas is the lessening and reduction of activity, and caffeine makes one restless and think a lot, and thinking a lot makes one tired. So you're just going in circles by relying on crutches that aren't actually crutches, it's restlessness that makes you tired. You can't shortcut or hack your way into enlightenment. There's only one way.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by SteRo »

Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:08 am
SteRo wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:25 am first attain sotapanna
Good idea if you know how to do it. Do you really know a way which is easier than jhana?
Well it depends on accumulations. Some might need jhana and others don't. I certainly don't need jhana. But then ... my approach to theravada doctrine is merely scientific. Nevertheless the concept "dry insight" seems to be a common concept in theravada. Based on what I have studied I'd say that jhana is necessary from path of seeing upwards, i.e. once sotapanna has been attained. But when sotapanna has been attained jhana is no problem at all.
Exhaling अ and inhaling धीः amounts to བྷྲཱུཾ་བི་ཤྭ་བི་ཤུད་དྷེ It's definitely not science but science may provide guidelines nevertheless.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

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is it possible for someone not addicted to jhana but addicted to sensual stimulations? any sutta reference?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Inedible
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by Inedible »

coconut wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:58 am personal experiences are irrelevant, they won't help your own, even if I did claim to be a jhana master.
A person who has personal experience gets to have an opinion. Otherwise it comes down to who read more and no one really knows anything.
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by coconut »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:14 pm is it possible for someone not addicted to jhana but addicted to sensual stimulations? any sutta reference?
The Buddha said you should focus on attaining jhanas, he even said that wherever you attain jhanas, you should stay there for life.
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confusedlayman
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Re: How many of you really tried to attain jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

coconut wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:56 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:14 pm is it possible for someone not addicted to jhana but addicted to sensual stimulations? any sutta reference?
The Buddha said you should focus on attaining jhanas, he even said that wherever you attain jhanas, you should stay there for life.
What do u mean? Stay there for life?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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