is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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confusedlayman
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is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by confusedlayman »

after meditator goes to 4th jhana, he stays sometime as he wish and comes down to 3rd, 2nd , 1st and to neighbouring concentration/access concentration (body is still paralysed and 5 sence off) where he can will any direct knowledge using his supercharged fast conciousness or he needs to do kasina to give rise to specific direct knowledge???

i cant understand what kasina will do that too prior to entering 1st jhana? is it vism lineage idea or buddha himself did kasina during his enlightment night to get triple knowledge?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
SarathW
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by SarathW »

Kasina is a Samatha practice.
You have to practice Vipassana for direct knowledge.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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confusedlayman
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 11:03 pm Kasina is a Samatha practice.
You have to practice Vipassana for direct knowledge.
if i want to see 4NP.. should i come to neighbour or acess concentration and see how suffering comes by remmebring my old event anything n investigating it?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
SarathW
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by SarathW »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 am
SarathW wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 11:03 pm Kasina is a Samatha practice.
You have to practice Vipassana for direct knowledge.
if i want to see 4NP.. should i come to neighbour or acess concentration and see how suffering comes by remmebring my old event anything n investigating it?
As far as you practice Vipassana I would say yes.
But those terminologies for concentrations are mainly used in Samatha practice.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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confusedlayman
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 8:52 am
confusedlayman wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 8:44 am
SarathW wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 11:03 pm Kasina is a Samatha practice.
You have to practice Vipassana for direct knowledge.
if i want to see 4NP.. should i come to neighbour or acess concentration and see how suffering comes by remmebring my old event anything n investigating it?
As far as you practice Vipassana I would say yes.
But those terminologies for concentrations are mainly used in Samatha practice.
Is kasina needed if i want to go to king of 33?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Nobodyisspecial
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by Nobodyisspecial »

Look kasinas are for developing supernatural abilities. Please check the path of purification for verification of that. Kasinas are jhanas that have the integration of the elements and colors. Kasinas are not for insight.
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sunnata sayalay
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by sunnata sayalay »

Friend,
The Kasina, can be able to enter from 1th to 8th, they have each separated mental factors which can be used for the future vipassana practice,after we be able to enter to all the 8th jhana ,you can use each jhana mental factors to contemplate those mental factors their arising and perishing as annica ,dukkha ,and annata.especially, those who has already enter to the noble path,maga Pala. if they want to go to the higher stage.they will discern the jhana mental factors with their perishing only as anicca ,dukkha and annata again and again, if their wisdom will be mature, they can go to the next stage,this practise is especially for those who has very mature practise only, their concentration is deep,they can see those mentality only perishing and perishing, till one day,they will go to Sankara uppekkha nana, they will deeply understand, everything is arising ,will due to perishing.nothingis permanent.
And,to be able to enter to the cessation, the kasina 8jhana is needed to be done to be able to reach to that.

Metta
TRobinson465
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by TRobinson465 »

By direct knowledge do you mean abhinna? If yes, then no it is not needed but is one of the ways to attain the abhinna.

According to Ajahn Lee you do indeed need to practice samatha meditation (of which kasina meditation is a form of) to attain most abhinna powers. If you do vipassana meditation without sufficiently practicing samatha meditation, Ajahn Lee states that you can attain enlightenment through "dry insight" in which you will only get one of the six abhinna powers, being free from the mental cankers, but not any of the other abhinna powers such as seeing past lives. Although you do need to do samatha to get most abhinna powers, i dont think it has to be kasina meditation specifically, but it can be.

pg 94-95

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/craft.pdf
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Nobodyisspecial
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Re: is kasina needed for direct knowledge?

Post by Nobodyisspecial »

Look, kasinas are only available in the first four jhanas!!!
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