Age limits

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Slowlearner5
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Age limits

Post by Slowlearner5 »

Hi, I looked through past threads but haven't found anything. I wonder if there's age limitations to attainments such as appana samadhi, after developing an air con style piti, a big sukha and subsequent jhana absorption. This is because the body is less energetic with age, less fresh in the morning as in younger years, and possibly limits the or blocks Citta? Maybe that's a wrong view. I thought that every level is just a symptom of Citta.
so perhaps I also ask if attainments are reversed with age.
(This question doesn't include age related ailments and body/ mind blocking altering medications.)
Thanks
Inedible
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Re: Age limits

Post by Inedible »

Yes, there are increased difficulties as you get older and mind and body no longer work the same way. It makes getting established in meditation harder. It is still worth the effort. Also, you may find it is like transferring to a new school and having a lot of your credits from previous experience transferring in really well. The challenges you have overcome already might help you to learn more quickly and keep the stability of mind you develop more easily. Older people can be more clever and they can compensate with herbs and good nutrition. Massage and acupuncture are good, too. You need flexibility more than muscle mass.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Age limits

Post by confusedlayman »

Slowlearner5 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:23 am Hi, I looked through past threads but haven't found anything. I wonder if there's age limitations to attainments such as appana samadhi, after developing an air con style piti, a big sukha and subsequent jhana absorption. This is because the body is less energetic with age, less fresh in the morning as in younger years, and possibly limits the or blocks Citta? Maybe that's a wrong view. I thought that every level is just a symptom of Citta.
so perhaps I also ask if attainments are reversed with age.
(This question doesn't include age related ailments and body/ mind blocking altering medications.)
Thanks
mind based attainments are accessible any time if mastery in attaining is done
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Inedible
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Re: Age limits

Post by Inedible »

confusedlayman wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:45 am mind based attainments are accessible any time if mastery in attaining is done
Your profile says you are 24. It goes downhill fast when you reach 25. You should hurry up. I promise at 45 things are way different. Especially if you have had to do factory work for a few years. I hear long distance trucking does horrible things to bodies, too. But mostly your hormone levels peak at 25 and then you start to lose your DHEA and melatonin. Testosterone, too.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Age limits

Post by confusedlayman »

Inedible wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:02 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:45 am mind based attainments are accessible any time if mastery in attaining is done
Your profile says you are 24. It goes downhill fast when you reach 25. You should hurry up. I promise at 45 things are way different. Especially if you have had to do factory work for a few years. I hear long distance trucking does horrible things to bodies, too. But mostly your hormone levels peak at 25 and then you start to lose your DHEA and melatonin. Testosterone, too.
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coconut
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Re: Age limits

Post by coconut »

Yes, there is a sutta that says that old age is a limiting factor for samadhi, along with illness, overeating and some other things.

Since you are a lay person, your focus should be on attaining the path of stream entry by thoroughly and properly studying the suttas of the 4 nikayas, keeping the 5 precepts, and making sure you have Right View, which you can start by reading the Samma Ditthi sutta: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .ntbb.html

And getting to first jhana based on right view (based on seeing the drawbacks of sensual desires, sensuality, and unwholesome qualities), and thus confirming dependent origination, is probably the best thing you can do as a lay person in 2020.
santa100
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Re: Age limits

Post by santa100 »

Slowlearner5 wrote:so perhaps I also ask if attainments are reversed with age.
Obviously if one starts training at a younger age, s/he'd have all the advantages young age provides: fresher, brighter, sharper mind and body faculties, more energy, more enthusiasm, less accrued negative habits, and the most obvious: more time! However, with that said, the most important factor is one's own will and determination in their pursuit. If one has strong will and dedication, nothing can stop him from attaining the goal even if s/he starts late.
dharmacorps
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Re: Age limits

Post by dharmacorps »

No age limitations on practice or attainment. The Buddha taught people of all ages for a reason. It is not a young people's game and there is no basis in the canon for saying older people can't practice.
Slowlearner5
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Re: Age limits

Post by Slowlearner5 »

Ok, partly to do with the first post something doesn't add up. There's talk of experiencing piti sukha and happiness concentration without jhana, and then you can go into jhana.
but then if you do go into jhana...what, you start experiencing body piti again, big air balloon sukha, and another concentration all over again? It doesn't make sense.
It confusing and makes me imagine wrongly like, maybe the 4th jhana is the real jhana, the deep trance with little physical disturbance??
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DooDoot
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Re: Age limits

Post by DooDoot »

Slowlearner5 wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:23 am This is because the body is less energetic with age
I imagine jhana is primarily related to purity of mind rather than to energy. Therefore, the suttas report the Buddha at will entered various jhana prior to his passing away, even though his body was a wreck.

I imagine the hindrance of old age could be related to mental habits that are difficult to give up.
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Slowlearner5
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Re: Age limits

Post by Slowlearner5 »

Ok then so no matter the age, what does a young or older sotapanna apparently feel like a) when sitting and b) when just walking around or talking... For instance do they feel smooth quiet and cruisy or buzzing and energetic etc
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Age limits

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Slowlearner5 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:08 am Ok then so no matter the age, what does a young or older sotapanna apparently feel like a) when sitting and b) when just walking around or talking... For instance do they feel smooth quiet and cruisy or buzzing and energetic etc
They feel just like anyone else would feel. There's no magic difference.
The only thing different is they have touched nibanna, and know there is no permanent self.
As far as I have read, the quality of subjective experience is not significant different after stream entry. Still got to work at meditation, still have the usual aches and pains.
Slowlearner5
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Re: Age limits

Post by Slowlearner5 »

Thanks. I thought that after much consistent meditation there would be a continual feeling of peace or concentration, maybe a bodily vibration anywhere, all due to purity. Maybe everyone's different but some posters have mentioned an afterglow or similar after meditation sessions.
I know some Swamis in India have mentioned Shakti and people around them feeling it effecting their meditation. I haven't found anything associated to that in Buddhism, but am curious , and yes they all seemed to be over 60 mostly. So maybe these Shakti masters are sotapanna level. But how can Sakti exist but not in Buddhism, doesn't make sense to me.
Mr. Seek
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Re: Age limits

Post by Mr. Seek »

Slowlearner5 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:39 am Thanks. I thought that after much consistent meditation there would be a continual feeling of peace or concentration, maybe a bodily vibration anywhere, all due to purity. Maybe everyone's different but some posters have mentioned an afterglow or similar after meditation sessions.
I know some Swamis in India have mentioned Shakti and people around them feeling it effecting their meditation. I haven't found anything associated to that in Buddhism, but am curious , and yes they all seemed to be over 60 mostly. So maybe these Shakti masters are sotapanna level. But how can Sakti exist but not in Buddhism, doesn't make sense to me.
It all depends on the individual, I think. All about his kamma his built-up prajna, subtle body, meditation methods, etc..

Your usual Buddhism (in contrast to Tibetan forms, tantric paths, etc.) doesn't put that much emphasis on such stuff, because they're kind of irrelevant in certain ways.

But that doesn't mean they don't exist, the phenomena that you described. Active meditators experience them. I don't think age matters that much in this regard. The meditator will experience all that stuff regardless of his faith, regardless if he likes it or not, regardless of his age, etc., if all other prerequisites are in place, that is. I think...
Snp 5.11—"Having nothing, free of clinging: That is the island, there is no other."
Slowlearner5
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Re: Age limits

Post by Slowlearner5 »

Slowlearner5 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:26 am Ok, partly to do with the first post something doesn't add up. There's talk of experiencing piti sukha and happiness concentration without jhana, and then you can go into jhana.
but then if you do go into jhana...what, you start experiencing body piti again, big air balloon sukha, and another concentration all over again? It doesn't make sense.
It confusing and makes me imagine wrongly like, maybe the 4th jhana is the real jhana, the deep trance with little physical disturbance??
Thanks again all for the replies. My post quoted here I think is answered by just now reading part of Bikkhu Bodhi's Upanisa Sutta which basically says I think, that the factors arise but need to develop and mature. Later on if access and samadhi develops they fully mature with jhana stages and subdue the hindrances. It sounds like each stage before this access requires exertion, patience, application and all takes many years!? And then jhana stages more years.
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