is lite jhana even jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
coconut
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Re: is lite jhana even jhana?

Post by coconut »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:37 pm I’ll give you the last word if you really need it.
Of course I need it. I need to look like the worse person to this imaginary audience, otherwise your gesturing and posturing to an imaginary audience wouldn't be effective would it?
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confusedlayman
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Re: is lite jhana even jhana?

Post by confusedlayman »

can I stop with lite jhana or should I put effort and develop hard jhana?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Ceisiwr
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Re: is lite jhana even jhana?

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:51 pm can I stop with lite jhana or should I put effort and develop hard jhana?
You will get different answers. Obviously I’m going to say that lite Jhana is faux Jhana.
"Besides the two categories of paramattha (the real) and paññatti (concept), a third category does not exist. One who is skilful in these two categories does not tremble in the face of other teachings."

Abhidhammāvatāra by Ven. Buddhadatta
BrokenBones
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Re: is lite jhana even jhana?

Post by BrokenBones »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:51 pm can I stop with lite jhana or should I put effort and develop hard jhana?
From your descriptions, I wouldn't say you've achieved the Buddha's jhana... the one you keep terming 'lite'. If you had you wouldn't have any doubts. Maybe you're on the way to achieving it... who knows. You can't really expect others to make these sort of decisions for you. Practice with a light heart and see what happens. Perhaps a complete read of all the suttas will assuage your doubts... they're actually where you'll find the answers... or you could pitch your lot in with Buddhaghosa and see where that takes you... it's all down to you.

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skandha
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Re: is lite jhana even jhana?

Post by skandha »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:51 pm can I stop with lite jhana or should I put effort and develop hard jhana?
From the previous post, it sounds like you have already achieved the so called hard jhanas anyway so lite jhanas should be easy, especially if you are measuring based on depth of concentration. However I feel the true measure for the Buddha's jhana is whether the letting go of sense desires becomes an automatic habit even outside of the meditation session. Having experienced this bliss of letting go of sensuality, sensual desires will become less attractive and even disgusting. No amount of sense restraint by will power and reasoning can give you this skill and discernment gained through an actual experience of jhanic letting go. Real jhana gives understanding of the asubha practice even if a formal asubha meditation object is not used. I say the measure of how hardcore you are in jhana is the degree of imperturbability in regards to sense desire at all times. It is no wonder that the Buddha praised Mahakassapa as the foremost in jhana achievement and equal even to himself, given Mahakassapa's hardcore mastery of sense restraint and ascetic practices.

In the suttas the Buddha usually don't measure skill by the depth of meditative experience, by the depth of the bliss. He always measures by statements to the effect of "my mind is free from the taint of sensual desire and it is at this point that I declare perfect awakening".
Form is like a lump of foam, Feeling like a water bubble; Perception is like a mirage, Volitions like a plantain trunk, and consciousness like an illusion
- SN 22.95
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