locked on to bliss can be termed as let gone of suffering, locked on to equanimity can be termed as let gone of pleasure and pain..let gone of everything leads to 9th jhana which is the end
is lite jhana even jhana?
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
The two are mutually exclusive, you can't get rid of fire with more fire.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:17 pmlocked on to bliss can be termed as let gone of suffering, locked on to equanimity can be termed as let gone of pleasure and pain..let gone of everything leads to 9th jhana which is the end
Mahasi's "momentary concentratation" is equally stressful.
"Fixing" and "Moving" both are stressful.
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
Indeed and in light of the text you were quite wrong.
Rather than attempting to put me down and laude yourself you could try to just stick to the topic at hand.Regardless, this is where our conversation ends as it is usually at this point that a Puthujana remains confused and cannot go higher despite their jhana attainments, since they don't have faith in the Buddha Dhamma from the get go, and must return to square one and the basics, which they won't do because they remain entrenteched and trapped in a web of views.
Not at all. You simply let go of wanting the breath, of wanting Jhana, of chasing the breath in or out and so on. Then, the mind becomes calm and remains with the breath until it reaches a point of being fully anchored to the breath."letting go" and "locked on" is a contradiction in terms. Think deeply about that.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
I wasn't speaking about you personally, do you think I care about your identity as a person? I was talking about anyone who is a puthujanna, And it's true, nothing I can do to help someone who can't be helped. All that can happen is that their circumstances line up well enough to see the error in their ways, which doesn't involve anything or any doing on my part.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:54 pmIndeed and in light of the text you were quite wrong.
Rather than attempting to put me down and laude yourself you could try to just stick to the topic at hand.Regardless, this is where our conversation ends as it is usually at this point that a Puthujana remains confused and cannot go higher despite their jhana attainments, since they don't have faith in the Buddha Dhamma from the get go, and must return to square one and the basics, which they won't do because they remain entrenteched and trapped in a web of views.
Not at all. You simply let go of wanting the breath, of wanting Jhana, of chasing the breath in or out and so on. Then, the mind becomes calm and remains with the breath until it reaches a point of being fully anchored to the breath."letting go" and "locked on" is a contradiction in terms. Think deeply about that.
Good luck.
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
A shame that you are ducking out, but that’s your choice of course.do you think I care about your identity as a person? I was talking about anyone who is a puthujanna, And it's true, nothing I can do to help someone who can't be helped. All that can happen is that their circumstances line up well enough to see the error in their ways, which doesn't involve anything or any doing on my part.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
A shame for you maybe, but there's nothing to gain for myself. I've seen how you argue, and it's a waste of time.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:04 pm
A shame that you are ducking out, but that’s your choice of course.do you think I care about your identity as a person? I was talking about anyone who is a puthujanna, And it's true, nothing I can do to help someone who can't be helped. All that can happen is that their circumstances line up well enough to see the error in their ways, which doesn't involve anything or any doing on my part.
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
I had others, i.e. the audience, more in mind myself.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
Sorry what fantasy?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
The fantasy of an audience you have to perform to. When I'm writing to you then I'm talking to you, what other people think is irrelevant to me.
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
This is a social media page. Of course there is an audience. It’s not a private conversation. People come here to engage in debate and to read said debates, among other things, so they can learn. I attempted to debate you, you ducked out. That is a shame for anyone who wished to learn about Jhana and the arguments surrounding them. Hardly a fantasy. Anyway, you said you wish to leave so i suspect I shouldn’t have any further replies?
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
I said that any further discussion about that topic would be fruitless for you. If anyone wishes to know something they can always ask, I don't need to imagine/fantasize about imaginary people, and trust me I receive several PMs to my inbox as it is.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:14 pmThis is a social media page. Of course there is an audience. People come here to engage in debate and to read said debates, so they can learn. I attempted to debate you, you ducked out. That is a shame for anyone who wished to learn about Jhana and the arguments surrounding them. Hardly a fantasy. Anyway, you said you wish to leave so i suspect I shouldn’t have any further replies?
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
I’m still bemused as to why you think there being an audience is a fantasy when this is a social media page, but ok I mean another aspect is to bear in mind that since there will be a wide audience of people it’s best to conduct ourselves in the best possible manner, lest we give off a bad impression about Buddhism to the public.
No one cares about how many PMs you receive. This isn’t a popularity contest.and trust me I receive several PMs to my inbox as it is.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
The point, which you did not understand, was that I'm quite busy with real people, and don't need to imagine an audience, not that I am popular. This is what I mean by the bad faith insincerity of your style of arguing when I said "I've seen how you argue", i.e. you never give anyone the benefit of doubt (you focus on the negative possible outcome/interpretation), you always make snide sarcastic remarks, and therefore it's a waste of time to speak with you. Why would anyone be masochistic enough to deal with such a person?Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:20 pmI’m still bemused as to why you think there being an audience is a fantasy when this is a social media page, but ok I mean another aspect is to bear in mind that since there will be a wide audience of people it’s best to conduct ourselves in the best possible manner, lest we give off a bad impression about Buddhism to the public.
No one cares about how many PMs you receive. This isn’t a popularity contest.and trust me I receive several PMs to my inbox as it is.
Re: is lite jhana even jhana?
The people who visit this page are real people. Many will be looking to understand Buddhism. It’s not a fantasy to be aware of that, and to be aware that how we conduct ourselves here impacts on how people will view Buddhism.
I think you are straying too far into discussing me now, which I doubt anyone here is really interested in. Both of us have also diverged from the topic at hand, so best to leave things here. I’ll give you the last word if you really need it.This is what I mean by the bad faith insincerity of your style of arguing when I said "I've seen how you argue", i.e. you never give anyone the benefit of doubt (you focus on the negative possible outcome/interpretation), you always make snide sarcastic remarks, and therefore it's a waste of time to speak with you. Why would anyone be masochistic enough to deal with such a person?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”