when u become feeling and feeling become you or only when there is feeling alone and u take feeling as you people say merged because prior to jhana they perceive they are different from feelingBrokenBones wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 pmWhy would you 'merge' with the objects? It's Buddhism not Brahmanism. Ekaggatā does not mean merge.Slowlearner5 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:17 pm Wondering if with say experiencing peace or serenity or tranquility and while watching the nice objects which may arise someday, concentration therefore starts to develop with the fascination including sometimes merging with the peaceful object. one could project onto that experience as jhana but with the doubts about that claim therefore there is this new category of lite jhana. so maybe it's on the continuum but from reading it's not yet samadhi. Maybe a few years of maturing and purification to go for it to get stronger. Yeh you can be relaxed and concentrate watching any object and centralise and merge over it, that's good sitting I assume.
Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
- confusedlayman
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Is this point where you receive the Ten Commandments?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:51 amwhen u become feeling and feeling become you or only when there is feeling alone and u take feeling as you people say merged because prior to jhana they perceive they are different from feelingBrokenBones wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 pmWhy would you 'merge' with the objects? It's Buddhism not Brahmanism. Ekaggatā does not mean merge.Slowlearner5 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:17 pm Wondering if with say experiencing peace or serenity or tranquility and while watching the nice objects which may arise someday, concentration therefore starts to develop with the fascination including sometimes merging with the peaceful object. one could project onto that experience as jhana but with the doubts about that claim therefore there is this new category of lite jhana. so maybe it's on the continuum but from reading it's not yet samadhi. Maybe a few years of maturing and purification to go for it to get stronger. Yeh you can be relaxed and concentrate watching any object and centralise and merge over it, that's good sitting I assume.
- confusedlayman
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
What does that mean? Sorry i no have christian backgroundBrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:27 pmIs this point where you receive the Ten Commandments?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:51 amwhen u become feeling and feeling become you or only when there is feeling alone and u take feeling as you people say merged because prior to jhana they perceive they are different from feelingBrokenBones wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 pm
Why would you 'merge' with the objects? It's Buddhism not Brahmanism. Ekaggatā does not mean merge.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Come now, you know enough. Why are you talking about merging and 'becoming feeling'? Such talk and 'God' the Great Almighty, The Great Oneness or the Singularity can't be far behind... we could call it... The Great Perception.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:49 pmWhat does that mean? Sorry i no have christian backgroundBrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:27 pmIs this point where you receive the Ten Commandments?confusedlayman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:51 am
when u become feeling and feeling become you or only when there is feeling alone and u take feeling as you people say merged because prior to jhana they perceive they are different from feeling
- confusedlayman
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Becauaae I merge with feeling or I became feeling is what common folk address...BrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:43 pmCome now, you know enough. Why are you talking about merging and 'becoming feeling'? Such talk and 'God' the Great Almighty, The Great Oneness or the Singularity can't be far behind... we could call it... The Great Perception.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:49 pmWhat does that mean? Sorry i no have christian background
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
You're not fooling anyone you knowconfusedlayman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:40 amBecauaae I merge with feeling or I became feeling is what common folk address...BrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:43 pmCome now, you know enough. Why are you talking about merging and 'becoming feeling'? Such talk and 'God' the Great Almighty, The Great Oneness or the Singularity can't be far behind... we could call it... The Great Perception.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:49 pm
What does that mean? Sorry i no have christian background
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Logically, if you deny that it is possible to dissolve the subject-object distinction, you must assert a permanent subject.BrokenBones wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:43 amYou're not fooling anyone you knowconfusedlayman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:40 amBecauaae I merge with feeling or I became feeling is what common folk address...BrokenBones wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:43 pm
Come now, you know enough. Why are you talking about merging and 'becoming feeling'? Such talk and 'God' the Great Almighty, The Great Oneness or the Singularity can't be far behind... we could call it... The Great Perception.
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
The 'logic' escapes me... and I'm not denying the possibility of 'merging'... only that it's a fools errand. But if I did deny it, how on earth does that assert a permanent 'subject'?coffeendonuts wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:53 amLogically, if you deny that it is possible to dissolve the subject-object distinction, you must assert a permanent subject.BrokenBones wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:43 amYou're not fooling anyone you knowconfusedlayman wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:40 am
Becauaae I merge with feeling or I became feeling is what common folk address...
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
If you aren't merging, you are observing.BrokenBones wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:22 pmThe 'logic' escapes me... and I'm not denying the possibility of 'merging'... only that it's a fools errand. But if I did deny it, how on earth does that assert a permanent 'subject'?coffeendonuts wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:53 amLogically, if you deny that it is possible to dissolve the subject-object distinction, you must assert a permanent subject.
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Here's interesting intrview with Leigh Brasington, who is a well known teacher of 'light' jhanas. I think it's relevant to the topic.
https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/article ... he-seeing/One thing I’ve discovered along the way is that the level of concentration that I get to on a ten-day course or a month-long course or that my students get to is probably not the level the Buddha and his disciples were getting to, because they were doing this practice full-time.
On long retreats, particularly during the two retreats I’ve done with Pa Auk Sayadaw, I was able to get deeply concentrated and then work with the same jhāna states I initially learned from Ayya Khema. The experiences I had during those retreats more closely matched the way they’re described in the suttas.
So then the question becomes, “If what I’m teaching is at a lesser level of concentration than what the Buddha was teaching, is that of any value, or should I just be teaching what he taught?” I’ve decided that, given that I’m working with lay students who come on retreat for ten or twenty days, it’s much more important to teach something that people can actually learn and use than to hold out for something that most people don’t have the time to properly develop. If someone wants to take their concentration to the level the Buddha was teaching, I can help with that as well. Basically, they just have to stay much longer in access concentration before moving into the first jhāna.
Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
So he admits here that Jhana lite isn’t what the Buddha taught. That’s refreshing, and interesting.EmptyShadow wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:51 pm Here's interesting intrview with Leigh Brasington, who is a well known teacher of 'light' jhanas. I think it's relevant to the topic.
https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/article ... he-seeing/One thing I’ve discovered along the way is that the level of concentration that I get to on a ten-day course or a month-long course or that my students get to is probably not the level the Buddha and his disciples were getting to, because they were doing this practice full-time.
On long retreats, particularly during the two retreats I’ve done with Pa Auk Sayadaw, I was able to get deeply concentrated and then work with the same jhāna states I initially learned from Ayya Khema. The experiences I had during those retreats more closely matched the way they’re described in the suttas.
So then the question becomes, “If what I’m teaching is at a lesser level of concentration than what the Buddha was teaching, is that of any value, or should I just be teaching what he taught?” I’ve decided that, given that I’m working with lay students who come on retreat for ten or twenty days, it’s much more important to teach something that people can actually learn and use than to hold out for something that most people don’t have the time to properly develop. If someone wants to take their concentration to the level the Buddha was teaching, I can help with that as well. Basically, they just have to stay much longer in access concentration before moving into the first jhāna.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
It seems to me that you have two choices. You can practice or you can give up.
- confusedlayman
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Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
practise
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
Today I have been re-reading some books about jhana and like always it feels like new material. It is clearer in my mind and I hope it will stay with me when I am sitting to practice. It is a good sign. I don't like it when I re-read books and just feel impatient because I have heard it all before.
Re: Using Lite Jhana to enter Deep Jhana?
There is an access concentration preceding jhana but there isn't a jhana preceding jhana of same type.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.