I started off using standard zafu cushions when learning, but I developed quite a liking for seiza benches and it's now my primary means for sitting.
However, I am starting to go back to using a small cushion and sitting half lotus.
How important do you think posture is when meditating? How erect should the spine be, and how should the muscles be developed so that one can sit for a long period of time?
One question of some import is how does this play into sitting at the base of a tree? I tend to find trees that I can rest my back against, but is this advisable?
Thank you
Posture
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Posture
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
- one_awakening
- Posts: 281
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:04 am
Re: Posture
Just find a posture where you're comfortable but not so comfortable that you fall asleep.
“You only lose what you cling to”
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re: Posture
As Shakespeare would say, "aye, there's the rub" lololone_awakening wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:59 am Just find a posture where you're comfortable but not so comfortable that you fall asleep.
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
Re: Posture
As erect as naturally possible
The body will sit as long as samadhi is maintained. Natural long breathing keeps the body upright.pitithefool wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:44 am and how should the muscles be developed so that one can sit for a long period of time?
Its good for avoiding the heat of the sun.pitithefool wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:44 amOne question of some import is how does this play into sitting at the base of a tree?
Definitely not. The back should never rest against something.pitithefool wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:44 amI tend to find trees that I can rest my back against, but is this advisable?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re: Posture
Easy on a seiza bench. However getting back into the groove of sitting half-lotus, the support needed from the erector spinae and others is a little distracting, but the effect on concentration seems to be well worth it.
Definitely don't want sunburns
Its good for avoiding the heat of the sun.
What bout the lying down posture while meditating? I've had some pretty good experiences while lying down but it is extremely prone to drowsiness. I'm assuming that's also the reason we don't want to rest the back on anything as well?
Definitely not. The back should never rest against something.
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
Re: Posture
Why? How? What evidence?
The suttas appear to say the above is for prior to sleep and the ending of life.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re: Posture
It's more stable, and using the back muscles like that keeps you awake. I notice better alertness when I try to keep better posture.
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re: Posture
BUT, meditating by lying back is very relaxing. Maybe too much lolpitithefool wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:22 am
It's more stable, and using the back muscles like that keeps you awake. I notice better alertness when I try to keep better posture.
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
Just a couple of pointers.
There are no mystical qualities attached to any posture. A posture is just an ordinary position the body may be in. Intermediate postures like crouching, running, standing on the head are also postures, albeit less conducive to long term focused attention.
Being upright means not deviating, not wavering, maintaining an inclination towards the Dhamma and not: 'having a straight spine'. Old people with crooked backs and young people with scoliosis may also become enlightened.
Leaning up against something is fine. It may make it easier to drift in and out of sleep so it demands more focused concentration rather than trying to relax and in turn helps to let go of the inclination "to sleep rather than be aware of unpleasant feelings or sensations".
There are no mystical qualities attached to any posture. A posture is just an ordinary position the body may be in. Intermediate postures like crouching, running, standing on the head are also postures, albeit less conducive to long term focused attention.
Being upright means not deviating, not wavering, maintaining an inclination towards the Dhamma and not: 'having a straight spine'. Old people with crooked backs and young people with scoliosis may also become enlightened.
Leaning up against something is fine. It may make it easier to drift in and out of sleep so it demands more focused concentration rather than trying to relax and in turn helps to let go of the inclination "to sleep rather than be aware of unpleasant feelings or sensations".
Re: Posture
A good meditation posture is like the dress for success thing. When you sit in a really good meditation posture that by itself makes you feel more successful.
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re:
Thank you for the reply!sunnat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:25 am Just a couple of pointers.
There are no mystical qualities attached to any posture. A posture is just an ordinary position the body may be in. Intermediate postures like crouching, running, standing on the head are also postures, albeit less conducive to long term focused attention.
Being upright means not deviating, not wavering, maintaining an inclination towards the Dhamma and not: 'having a straight spine'. Old people with crooked backs and young people with scoliosis may also become enlightened.
Leaning up against something is fine. It may make it easier to drift in and out of sleep so it demands more focused concentration rather than trying to relax and in turn helps to let go of the inclination "to sleep rather than be aware of unpleasant feelings or sensations".
I'm not seeing any mystical qualities as much as subtle psychological effects. I like meditating erect, almost as if I'm being held up by a string from the crown of my head. It seems to imbue a subtle amount of confidence or energy, in the same way that "walking tall" does.
Thoughts on that?
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
Re: Posture
Sounds like superstition, including about the "back muscles". I suppose if you count on falling asleep, you need all the help you can get. This is the beauty of full-lotus; in that macho guys can fall asleep while they pretend they are meditating. My advice is unrelated to falling asleep but always being awake.pitithefool wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:22 am It's more stable, and using the back muscles like that keeps you awake. I notice better alertness when I try to keep better posture.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
- pitithefool
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:39 am
Re: Posture
Here, check out this scientific study https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... l_and_MoodDooDoot wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:27 am
Sounds like superstition, including about the "back muscles". I suppose if you count on falling asleep, you need all the help you can get. This is the beauty of full-lotus; in that macho guys can fall asleep while they pretend they are meditating. My advice is unrelated to falling asleep but always being awake.
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
Re: Posture
It is unlikely the above supports your Hindu ideas because it does not appear to be about "lotus" posture:
I used to meditate for at least 8 hours per day, including :Background: Body posture reflects emotional states, and this study investigates the effect of posture sitting in a slouched or upright position on recall of either negative (hopeless, helpless, powerless, or defeated) memories or positive (empowered or optimistic) memories. Methods: 216 college students sat in either a slouched or an erect position while recalling negative memories and then in a second step, recalling positive memories. They then sat in the opposite body position while recalling negative and then positive memories. Results: 86% of the students reported that it was easier to recall/access negative memories in the collapsed position than in the erect position (p < 0.01) and 87% of the students reported that it was easier to recall/access positive images in the erect position than in the collapsed position (p < 0.01). Participants who reported being most depressed over the previous two years reported significantly more recall of negative memories in both the slouched position (p = 0.01) and erect position (p < 0.05). For those who were most depressed, there were no differences in recalling positive memories. Conclusion: We recommend that therapists teach clients posture awareness and sit more upright in the office and at home as a strategy to increase positive affect and decrease depression
1. sitting on the floor in Thai swastika posture (where both legs are folded in the same direction; thus one ankle in the groin and one ankle to the side) for over 2 hours.
2. standing meditation in one spot for 90 minutes
3. sitting on a backless stool for many hours
lotus posture with spine not erect will not be better than the above
regardless, perfect lotus posture won't allow one without wisdom to enter the Path
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati