Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
The breath as a distraction
Re: The breath as a distraction
I could not follow your post due to very long sentences.woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
I assume you are investigating the Vipassana, not Samatha.
If you think that the breath is the anchor and then be mindful of the body and mind it will be in line with Satipathana Sutta.
Another Sutta to follow is the Anapanasati Sutta.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: The breath as a distraction
Yes, it sounds quite similar to a practice taught by the Samatha Trust, where different lengths and aspects of the breath are focused on, before dropping the specific focus on the breath and allowing the mind to "settle". I don't know of links to suttas etc., but if it works, keep going!woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
Re: The breath as a distraction
SarathW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:11 amI could not follow your post due to very long sentences.woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
I assume you are investigating the Vipassana, not Samatha.
If you think that the breath is the anchor and then be mindful of the body and mind it will be in line with Satipathana Sutta.
Another Sutta to follow is the Anapanasati Sutta.
- I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time.
- This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor.
- Does this make sense to anyone else?
- If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Re: The breath as a distraction
I am sorry, I can't understand why you consider breath as a distraction.
The breath is our life. How can it be a distraction?
The breath is our life. How can it be a distraction?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: The breath as a distraction
Kāyagatāsati sutta
The breath is not a distraction. It's the dhammas that arise in the mind that determine the quality of meditation.
In the former case you mentioned, there might be a imbalance of energy of mind(viriya) over collectedness of mind(samadhi).
In the latter case, there might be a slight imbalance of 'samadhi' over 'viriya'.
https://suttacentral.net/mn119/en/sujatoTheir mind becomes stilled internally; it settles, unifies, and becomes immersed in samādhi.
Tesaṁ pahānā ajjhattameva cittaṁ santiṭṭhati sannisīdati ekodi hoti samādhiyati.
The breath is not a distraction. It's the dhammas that arise in the mind that determine the quality of meditation.
In the former case you mentioned, there might be a imbalance of energy of mind(viriya) over collectedness of mind(samadhi).
In the latter case, there might be a slight imbalance of 'samadhi' over 'viriya'.
Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
Re: The breath as a distraction
I don't know.....hence asking.
I can only tell you when I reduce my focus on the breath the session seems more productive in terms of insights and foster a more general openness.
Re: The breath as a distraction
Sounds like what I am experiencingSam Vara wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:30 amYes, it sounds quite similar to a practice taught by the Samatha Trust, where different lengths and aspects of the breath are focused on, before dropping the specific focus on the breath and allowing the mind to "settle". I don't know of links to suttas etc., but if it works, keep going!woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
Last edited by woodsman on Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The breath as a distraction
Oh, I see.
This is normal.
It is not the breath that distractive, it is your Sankhara.
It appears to me that you are under a lot of stress which comes to the surface when you concentrate on your breath.
Practice Metta before you start your meditation session and release stress in your heart and lungs.
The natural feelings are pleasant with wisdom and painfully with without knowledge.
This is the whole purpose of meditation to expel that ignorance.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.htmlNeither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is pleasant in occurring together with knowledge, and painful in occurring without knowledge."
Last edited by SarathW on Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: The breath as a distraction
So all good then, just carry on as I am?SarathW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:02 pmOh, I see.
This is normal.
The natural feelings are pleasant with wisdom and painfully with without knowledge.
This is the whole purpose of meditation to expel that ignorance.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.htmlNeither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is pleasant in occurring together with knowledge, and painful in occurring without knowledge."
Re: The breath as a distraction
What I am saying is your focus should be the breath.
Perhaps you should speak to a teacher to find out your aversion towards your breath.
My problem is I feel bored with my breath but I know it is plesant.
I enjoy my monkey mind more than the breath.
Perhaps you should speak to a teacher to find out your aversion towards your breath.
My problem is I feel bored with my breath but I know it is plesant.
I enjoy my monkey mind more than the breath.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: The breath as a distraction
I think that sounds fine. Especially if you're getting quite good at dropping into concentration rather quickly, you may find that another object is more suitable to settle on. In which case, there's no reason to believe from what you've posted that it's "wrong" or anything.woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
The question that comes to mind is, what is the "singular focus" you're speaking of?
Please note: This profile picture is not actually a picture of the user.
Re: The breath as a distraction
The breath is your anchor.woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will develop mindfulness immersed in the [breath]body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding. We will steady it, consolidate it, and set about it properly.' That's how you should train yourselves."
"Just as if a person, catching six [senses]animals of different ranges, of different habitats, were to bind them with a strong rope. Catching a snake, he would bind it with a strong rope. Catching a crocodile... a bird... a dog... a hyena... a monkey, he would bind it with a strong rope. Binding them all with a strong rope, he would tether them to a strong post or stake.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: The breath as a distraction
Watching the breath can be done so as to distract yourself from your situation, it can be done so as to block out the larger reality or the bigger picture, which is not mindfulness.woodsman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:55 am Hello everyone,
I recently considered the possibility that counting/following and otherwise focussing on the breath might be getting in the way of my sessions developing as they have been in a state of attrition for some time. This conclusion seems to have been correct - instead of seeing the breath as the main focus of my practice I see it now as a means to relax the body and mind before dropping it as a singular focus and allowing the mind to remain open with a peripheral awareness of the breath as a sort of anchor. does this make sense to anyone else?
If so I would appreciate any link s you may have that validates this?
Thanks _/|\_
'Knowing that you are breathing while you are doing things' is an awareness which includes your entire situation rather than 'focussing on the breath' which excludes the bigger picture.
That awareness which is inclusive is required to understand your situation.
You can , as you say, initially focus on the breath as a relaxtion method, but that relaxation technique is not the mindfulness that needs to be developed or anapanasati.
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Re: The breath as a distraction
The2nd wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:30 pm Watching the breath can be done so as to distract yourself from your situation, it can be done so as to block out the larger reality or the bigger picture, which is not mindfulness.
'Knowing that you are breathing while you are doing things' is an awareness which includes your entire situation rather than 'focussing on the breath' which excludes the bigger picture.
That awareness which is inclusive is required to understand your situation.
You can , as you say, initially focus on the breath as a relaxtion method, but that relaxation technique is not the mindfulness that needs to be developed or anapanasati.
As i understand, its important to distinguish the kammatthana from the heart, which we are trying to develop. When sati becomes well established in the heart, the quality of indriyasamvara comes to fulfilment and includes collectedness or samadhi. Another quality that arises with sati is Kammaññatā or wieldiness. If one wishes, one can keep awareness on the breath and experience deeper and deeper states of samadhi and/or it can be directed towards investigating the nature of reality.
Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!