Money with jhana

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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DNS
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Re: Money with jhana

Post by DNS »

confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:10 pm What early canon says?
The Buddha to be was raised in a palace(s).
It is in the Pali Canon, including the EBT:
"Monks, I lived in refinement, utmost refinement, total refinement. My father even had lotus ponds made in our palace: one where red-lotuses bloomed, one where white lotuses bloomed, one where blue lotuses bloomed, all for my sake. I used no sandalwood that was not from Varanasi. My turban was from Varanasi, as were my tunic, my lower garments, & my outer cloak. A white sunshade was held over me day & night to protect me from cold, heat, dust, dirt, & dew.

"I had three palaces: one for the cold season, one for the hot season, one for the rainy season. During the four months of the rainy season I was entertained in the rainy-season palace by minstrels without a single man among them, and I did not once come down from the palace. Whereas the servants, workers, & retainers in other people's homes are fed meals of lentil soup & broken rice, in my father's home the servants, workers, & retainers were fed wheat, rice, and meat.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to aging, not beyond aging, sees another who is aged, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to aging, not beyond aging. If I — who am subject to aging, not beyond aging — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is aged, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to illness, not beyond illness, sees another who is ill, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to illness, not beyond illness. And if I — who am subject to illness, not beyond illness — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is ill, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the healthy person's intoxication with health entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to death, not beyond death, sees another who is dead, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to death, not beyond death. And if I — who am subject to death, not beyond death — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is dead, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the living person's intoxication with life entirely dropped away."

— AN 3.38
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Re: Money with jhana

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Of course monks and nuns don't have wealth and large bank accounts (except for a few who have violated the Vinaya).

So what matters is what is the case with lay people?

The suttas clearly show men and women from all economic classes, the extreme destitute to the rich and everything else in between; even very wealthy and rich, attaining to high level attainments, including Visakha, Anathapindika and others.
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Re: Money with jhana

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DNS wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 7:19 pm Of course monks and nuns don't have wealth and large bank accounts (except for a few who have violated the Vinaya).

So what matters is what is the case with lay people?

The suttas clearly show men and women from all economic classes, the extreme destitute to the rich and everything else in between; even very wealthy and rich, attaining to high level attainments, including Visakha, Anathapindika and others.
I’ve always thought of it in terms of being rich affording the potential to have more time meditating but with greater temptation to distraction (with sense pleasures), whereas for poorer people there might be less time to meditate but with fewer temptations that money can bring.
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Re: Money with jhana

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confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:10 pm
sphairos wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:04 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 4:58 pm He was prince as told by him... but it is not the topic of discussion
You won't find that in the early parts of the Pāli canon. Only in later parts, when this legend had become widespread.
What early canon says?
something like that:

https://aeon.co/essays/was-the-buddha-a ... -itinerant
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?
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Re: Money with jhana

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sphairos wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 7:44 pm something like that:

https://aeon.co/essays/was-the-buddha-a ... -itinerant
The account, according to:

A modern writer vs. the word of the Buddha in the EBT . . .

I'll go with the Buddha. :tongue:
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Re: Money with jhana

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Ceisiwr wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 7:38 pm
DNS wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 7:19 pm Of course monks and nuns don't have wealth and large bank accounts (except for a few who have violated the Vinaya).

So what matters is what is the case with lay people?

The suttas clearly show men and women from all economic classes, the extreme destitute to the rich and everything else in between; even very wealthy and rich, attaining to high level attainments, including Visakha, Anathapindika and others.
I’ve always thought of it in terms of being rich affording the potential to have more time meditating but with greater temptation to distraction (with sense pleasures), whereas for poorer people there might be less time to meditate but with fewer temptations that money can bring.
Good point. The wealthy have more money and time for going on retreat and other programs, which can be costly (peer led lay retreat centers), but have the distractions that come with wealth. The poor have less temptations but also might be consuming their time with trying to get out of poverty.

Both extremes have their pros and cons, in regard to Dhamma practice and advancements.
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Re: Money with jhana

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If you are %110 committed to practice then a life of poverty could be ideal. That is how the masters of the past practiced however it is not very practical in our modern age. Most people don't have that level of commitment either.
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Re: Money with jhana

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Nobodyisspecial wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 2:28 am Does anyone else find jhana absorbtion not possible with a large bank account?
"Suppose that a man, taking a loan, invests it in his business affairs. His business affairs succeed. He repays his old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining his wife. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, taking a loan, I invested it in my business affairs. Now my business affairs have succeeded. I have repaid my old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining my wife.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

I know it's only a simile and not quite related, but you can see the logic... obviously there is a higher level of abandonment for a monk but a layperson untroubled by worldly money matters has it slightly easier than someone who is struggling.

Even so, I don't think there is any real obstacle for attaining jhana based on money or lack of it.

Or if your large bank balance is giving you too much concern... I can always send you my bank details :tongue:
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Re: Money with jhana

Post by Nobodyisspecial »

I will not be needing any bank routing number, I could just write a check in your honor to a charity.

Monks get to have only 3 robe sets, I think it says in the vinaya. Sounds like real poverty to be an arhart (enlightened, spell check, sorry about my Pali). I read about them throwing away money like it was rubbish in the monastic code by Ajahn Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Could the vinaya have lessons and precepts needed to enlighten? Could they be discarded and ignored and still make progress of unattachment and desirelessness? What about the vinaya having applicability for modern meditators? Is having wealth and claiming to be not attached to it, just clever with words, like Ajahn Chah says in his collected teachings?

Maybe some would argue laity don't need the vinaya. But how many laity meditate commonly? I hear not many actually meditate. Could those seeking transcendence outside monasticism still need to adhere to vinaya code to make progress? It seems so in my own understanding. Thank you.
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Re: Money with jhana

Post by BrokenBones »

Nobodyisspecial wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:11 pm I will not be needing any bank routing number, I could just write a check in your honor to a charity.

Monks get to have only 3 robe sets, I think it says in the vinaya. Sounds like real poverty to be an arhart (enlightened, spell check, sorry about my Pali). I read about them throwing away money like it was rubbish in the monastic code by Ajahn Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Could the vinaya have lessons and precepts needed to enlighten? Could they be discarded and ignored and still make progress of unattachment and desirelessness? What about the vinaya having applicability for modern meditators? Is having wealth and claiming to be not attached to it, just clever with words, like Ajahn Chah says in his collected teachings?

Maybe some would argue laity don't need the vinaya. But how many laity meditate commonly? I hear not many actually meditate. Could those seeking transcendence outside monasticism still need to adhere to vinaya code to make progress? It seems so in my own understanding. Thank you.
I'd say no. The five precepts are sufficient and if you observed the eight precepts at the right time then you've got it more than covered.

The vinaya is very concerned with the minutiae of daily life which wouldn't be very relevant or practical in lay life.
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Re: Money with jhana

Post by Akashad »

Nobodyisspecial wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 2:28 am Does anyone else find jhana absorbtion not possible with a large bank account?
You can use that money to rent a cabin somewhere tranquil or peaceful like by a lake and have food delivered while you meditate. Also you don't have to work so you can meditate.Or perhaps if possible go on long period of retreat that way money will actually facilitate your meditation.

I don't see money as a hindrace.Money is just money.But when we use to fill our lives with frivolous experience after experience after experience then yes i do see it as a hindrance.

Happy Practice! :anjali:
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