Contemplation of the body sensations

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
Spiny Norman
Posts: 10172
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Contemplation of the body sensations

Post by Spiny Norman »

boldnesz wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:42 am Hi dear friends,

I wanted to ask you one question, which I believe is about body attachment. One of my main issue in attaining tranquility of the mind are body aches.

During a 10 day retreat I fought with them for the first 3 days and felt so much pain in my back, and legs. Then on the 4th day, being in so much pain but having took the firm decision not to move, I sort of accepted "to die" on this cushion and I believe it's what allowed my mind to get tranquility and then enter jhana.

I clearly remember that moment, taking the decision "to abandon" my body because it was too painful, and my mind went straight to tranquility. It took me 3 days to take that decision.

I've heard somewhere that the metta meditation targeting the pain could get me through this but I find it very hard to target pain with that meditation.

Is someone an expert at managing these awful body aches during meditation, and how does he/she do that?

Metta 🙏
Meditation is not about bodily pain or yogic contortions. Find a position which is basically comfortable, and adjust your position if necessary. A stool or a chair is fine.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Contemplation of the body sensations

Post by DooDoot »

DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:56 am At least Goenka people knows it's actually Buddhism, instead of establishing another new age kinda religion.
The Buddha taught the development of 4 jhanas. When rapture and dispassion towards rapture is developed, then the mind can easily cope with any pain due to its dispassion towards pleasant feelings. Note: what i posted is counter intuitive.
DiamondNgXZ wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:56 am Even Ajahn Chah has this training method where he gives super long dhamma talk, the monks have to sit for hours and hours on end, until they realize that the suffering ends when they no longer crave for the dhamma talk to end.
What Ajahn Chah did is irrelevant. Ajahn Chah recruited many monks, for which many, probably the majority, eventually disrobed.

In summary, the Buddha taught practising anapanasati for the development of rapture and samadhi leading to the later development of jhana. The Buddha taught the Middle Path based on avoiding self-torment and developing jhana.

This is not "new age kinda of religion".

:strawman:
Last edited by DooDoot on Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
un8-
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:49 am

Re: Contemplation of the body sensations

Post by un8- »

Not to be pedantic, but you're technically only a Buddhist once you have Right View, until then you're a bahiro (outsider). So being a goenka follower doesn't make one a Buddhist. Focusing on the nose area is not inherently right view, body scanning is not inherently right view.

You can't get Samma Samadhi without Pamojja (joy), and you can't get Pamojja (joy) without right view. Pamojja is jhana fuel, it's the energy that becomes piti and sukha.

Two things lead to arising Pamojja, for the sotapanna it's reflecting on the triple gem and their virtue. For a jhana attainer it's seeing that the 5 hindrances are not present, which requires sense restraint and celibacy.

So focusing on the nose region without having Pamojja and right view is like trying to squeeze juice out of a dry lemon, painful and pointless.

Body scanning does not lead to seeing the drawbacks of sensuality. You'll get more insight and asubha shock reading Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash autospy report detailing (nsfw)how his brain ejected from his skull and his torso ripped in half, than you would doing a body scan.
There is only one battle that could be won, and that is the battle against the 3 poisons. Any other battle is a guaranteed loss because you're going to die either way.
befriend
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: Contemplation of the body sensations

Post by befriend »

Curiosity is the correct relationship to pain watch it tingle and observe it's subtle changes Whatever they are heat throbbing don't have aversion in your mind to the pain ACCEPT it befriend it aversion is what causes suffering not physical pain. Sometimes pain will hurt but when there's no aversion to the pain there is space around it so to speak. And no you pushing it away. Welcome it embrace it. It's counter intuitive like a lot of the Dhamma. Try RAIN recognize it as pain allow it to be there investigate it what's it feel like what's it doing? And then non identifying happens naturally. The Buddha talks about this when he says a wordling is shot by two arrows one is physical pain the other is aversion. Just let go of aversion this is a good insight to have for practice.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
boldnesz
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:10 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Contemplation of the body sensations

Post by boldnesz »

befriend wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:24 am Curiosity is the correct relationship to pain watch it tingle and observe it's subtle changes Whatever they are heat throbbing don't have aversion in your mind to the pain ACCEPT it befriend it aversion is what causes suffering not physical pain. Sometimes pain will hurt but when there's no aversion to the pain there is space around it so to speak. And no you pushing it away. Welcome it embrace it. It's counter intuitive like a lot of the Dhamma. Try RAIN recognize it as pain allow it to be there investigate it what's it feel like what's it doing? And then non identifying happens naturally. The Buddha talks about this when he says a wordling is shot by two arrows one is physical pain the other is aversion. Just let go of aversion this is a good insight to have for practice.
Awesome method. I looked it up on the internet, looks like it's a Tara Brach's method. Anyway, I remember during the retreat they told us to investigate and not feel aversion about it.

If I can add something to this method... I'd say it's better to start off with a low level of pain and then move onto the hardest one. I remember feeling fine investigating not so big body aches, but when the high level pains "attacked" me I was helpless because I believe I wasn't trained well on low grade pains, if that make sense. I think when you train your mind on low intensity pains you teach your mind to actually let its guard down and take it easy and see that there's nothing to be afraid of and continue this way to harder levels.

It reminds me one saying of a tibetan buddhist master who said: "You don't learn to sail in a storm. You should first practice on calm waters and then increase the difficulty."
Post Reply