Vedana

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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simsapa
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Vedana

Post by simsapa »

What is the difference between vedana and emotion?
SarathW
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Re: Vedana

Post by SarathW »

Essential Meaning of emotion
: a strong feeling (such as love, anger, joy, hate, or fear)
Based on the above definition they come under Sankhara as per Abhidhamma.
In Abhidhamma 52 Cetasika is termed as Vedana,Sanna (2)and Sankhara (50)
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... l#cetasika
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
simsapa
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Re: Vedana

Post by simsapa »

Based on the above definition they come under Sankhara as per Abhidhamma.
Thanks, so when we are meditating how can we know for sure that we are focused on vedana as opposed to sanna at the mental level? Could vedana as a reaction to an object become an object of sanna?
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mjaviem
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Re: Vedana

Post by mjaviem »

simsapa wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:12 am What is the difference between vedana and emotion?
vedanā
SN 22.56 B. Bodhi wrote:... “And what, bhikkhus, is feeling? There are these six classes of feeling: feeling born of eye-contact, feeling born of ear-contact, feeling born of nose-contact, feeling born of tongue-contact, feeling born of body-contact, feeling born of mind-contact. This is called feeling. With the arising of contact there is the arising of feeling. With the cessation of contact there is the cessation of feeling. This Noble Eightfold Path is the way leading to the cessation of feeling; that is, right view … right concentration...
saṅkhārā
SN 22.56 B. Bodhi wrote:... “And what, bhikkhus, are volitional formations? There are these six classes of volition: volition regarding forms, volition regarding sounds, volition regarding odours, volition regarding tastes, volition regarding tactile objects, volition regarding mental phenomena. This is called volitional formations. With the arising of contact there is the arising of volitional formations. With the cessation of contact there is the cessation of volitional formations. This Noble Eightfold Path is the way leading to the cessation of volitional formations; that is, right view … right concentration...
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Vedana

Post by Ceisiwr »

Personally I translate vedana simply as “experience”. Sanna then would be “conceptualisation & recognition”.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
simsapa
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Re: Vedana

Post by simsapa »

And what, bhikkhus, is feeling? There are these six classes...
Thanks for the sutta reference. It gives a description of classes of vedana and its origin in contact, but doesn't tell me what vedana is precisely.
And what, bhikkhus, are volitional formations? There are these six classes of volition...
Let's say I'm meditating and I remember something that happened in the past. Then there is a chain reaction of thoughts following this memory. Would these be sankhara "regarding mental phenomena"?
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Re: Vedana

Post by Spiny Norman »

simsapa wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:12 am What is the difference between vedana and emotion?
Vedana is like the immediate reaction, emotion follows. I associate vedana mostly with bodily feeling, whereas emotions have both mental and bodily aspects.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Jack19990101
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Re: Vedana

Post by Jack19990101 »

simsapa wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:12 am What is the difference between vedana and emotion?
Vedana is the personal preference. It is kamma vipaka and neutral karmically. It is neither wholesome nor unwholesome.
Emotion is always kamma, always unwholesome.

Vedana has its origination as raw sensation, emotion has its origination as vedana.
Emotion is to be avoid, non-arising as its destiny. Vedana is to be directly known and left alone on its own course.
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mjaviem
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Re: Vedana

Post by mjaviem »

simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:15 am
And what, bhikkhus, is feeling? There are these six classes...
Thanks for the sutta reference. It gives a description of classes of vedana and its origin in contact, but doesn't tell me what vedana is precisely.
...
I think we have to see vedana and all the other upadana khandas for ourselves. But I would say feeling is how we are affected by things. We can be affected in a pleasant manner or we can be affected in an unpleasant manner. We can also not know and be confused if we are affected pleasantly or unpleasantly, this would also be vedana.
simsapa wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:15 am ...
And what, bhikkhus, are volitional formations? There are these six classes of volition...
Let's say I'm meditating and I remember something that happened in the past. Then there is a chain reaction of thoughts following this memory. Would these be sankhara "regarding mental phenomena"?
I would say that is your "mental life". Thoughts, volition and emotions are your "mental life". This would be the sankhara upadana khandha (sorry for my pali. And my english :tongue: )
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
simsapa
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Re: Vedana

Post by simsapa »

like the immediate reaction, emotion follows... bodily feeling
OK, I experience this as waves of pain, dullness, calm, or excitement. What about reactions to what is sensed by the mind faculty? How can we distinguish mental vedana from something else?
Vedana is the personal preference.
My understanding is that a "preference" would be a sankhara.
Vedana has its origination as raw sensation
The poster above was saying the "raw sensation" (i.e. bodily feeling) is vedana...


So... how to distinguish vedana and sanna? My understanding is sanna is the faculty that perceives the qualities of the object.
Spiny Norman
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Re: Vedana

Post by Spiny Norman »

simsapa wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:11 pm
like the immediate reaction, emotion follows... bodily feeling
OK, I experience this as waves of pain, dullness, calm, or excitement. What about reactions to what is sensed by the mind faculty? How can we distinguish mental vedana from something else?
Vedana is the personal preference.
My understanding is that a "preference" would be a sankhara.
Vedana has its origination as raw sensation
The poster above was saying the "raw sensation" (i.e. bodily feeling) is vedana...


So... how to distinguish vedana and sanna? My understanding is sanna is the faculty that perceives the qualities of the object.
Yes, sanna is perception or recognition. The suttas say that sanna, vinnana and vedana are conjoined.
I think of vedana as that instinctive initial reaction to what is sensed.
Bear in mind that these categories are just a model of experience, an aid to observing how aspects of experience arise, and how they shape our behaviour.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
simsapa
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Re: Vedana

Post by simsapa »

For anyone interested in reading more about vedana, there are two chapters in "Excursions into the Thought-World of the Pali Discourses" by Bhikkhu Analayo on vedana and vedananupassana. Also, the same author has just released an entire book on vedana.

Best wishes.
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bodom
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Re: Vedana

Post by bodom »

simsapa wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:53 pm For anyone interested in reading more about vedana, there are two chapters in "Excursions into the Thought-World of the Pali Discourses" by Bhikkhu Analayo on vedana and vedananupassana. Also, the same author has just released an entire book on vedana.

Best wishes.
Both books can be downloaded here for free:

Deepening Insight, Teachings on vedanā in the Early Buddhist Discourses
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... alayo.html

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
santa100
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Re: Vedana

Post by santa100 »

simsapa wrote:So... how to distinguish vedana and sanna? My understanding is sanna is the faculty that perceives the qualities of the object.
The Aggregates work very closely together but it's possible to distinguish them. For example, being pricked by a needle, Sanna(identification/labeling) is the function that serves to identify/label the object that hits you to be a needle, not a knife, nor a hammer, etc. Vedana(feeling/sensation) is the function that serves to register the associated bare sensation when the needle makes contact, and in this case, a painful bodily sensation. Similarly for mental vedana: when seeing a good old friend, Sanna performs the identification/labeling that s/he's indeed a good old friend, not a stranger, nor your old enemy. And then Vedana registers the corresponded pleasant mental sensation of seeing one's good old friend.
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