Personality shift

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
maniture_85
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Personality shift

Post by maniture_85 »

I'd like to share some toughts and experiences i'm having this period, any comment is welcome.
One day i noticed that my chest and abdomen, which i Always feel somehow sick because of bad senstions ( and long run anxiety ), were free from any kind of suffering.
This period is lasting a lot, like a couple of weeks.
The point is that i feel a different person. I'm having a boost in mindfulness which manifests itself clearly in many situations, even if i'm not practicing mindfulness. I have many pleasant "flashbacks" of my adolescence and i feel the same happiness and energy. I can have kind of sad toughts without being sad, having a better understanding and a different view of the topic.
Ego looks particularly reduced, and i often notice when i'm acting guided by ego.
I no longer care about judgements.
Sometimes i'm noticing a new meditation effect while practicing. Chest and abdomen feels void of any sensation or vibration, and the body feels composed by small synchronized particles. Air pressure on the skin is particularly clear, because body borders are so thin that looks not existent.
Sometimes i cannot feel difference between me and the air or the surrounding area.
Sometimes I feel space distorsions, and clearly remember i had this kind of sensation in my childhood, i often had this kind of experience ( at time i was very fashinated by it and i used to investigate it ).
I'm surprised to have noticed that this experience has something in common with those childhood experiences.
Do you have experienced something similar?

Depression and anxiety looks significantly reduced or almost disappeared ( confirmed by a specialist ): it started reducing a couple of months ago and greatly reduced after those meditation experiences.
My parents always said that youth is the best part of life, and the rest is suffering.
I realized it is because so many of us become sick because of ego and bad views. The void i'm experimenting in my daily life makes me able to better feel what i like to do, what is a bad word or a good word, a good action or a bad action. I know when i'm doing something bad/stupid which will bring me suffering. All this knowledge is contained in ourself, and it can explicate itself naturally when we are in a state of peace. In my case, i noticed most important vibrations and sensations comes from chest, abdomen, face, head and back.
It is like a kind of wisdom which naturally explicates itself from the immaterial world to the material world through vibrations, and guides you to make good actions for the good of you and others.
I also realized that true love is possible only if we are in a peaceful state.

One thing worries me a bit. Of course there are times when meditation are not that good and chest and abdomen's emptiness is broken by some bad sensation or from something i started to crave, and i'm no longer able to control those sensations. When it occurs, i feel i'm no longer able to sustain a good tought which i were able to sustain. For example, a friend did a very bad thing to me, but i struggle to feel compassion for him. It looks to me that those bad sensations which sometimes manifests are like a kind of illness, and when i cannot control them then bad actions or bad toughts can take place. It means i'm actually a different person when i have this suffering condition.
Last edited by maniture_85 on Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Personality shift

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Interesting stuff! It sounds familiar and nothing to worry about.
Don't expect it to last forever, change will happen pretty fast.
The main advice I would give is to stay grounded, and not become lost in your head and concepts.
Because from the place you are now, I have seen some people spiral into delusion and mental problems. Stay grounded and stay real.
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Personality shift

Post by SarathW »

Thank you for sharing your experience which I can be related to.
I am glad that your meditation helped you to develop your seven factors of enlightement.
Generally, your post should be posted in the "Personal Experience" section.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Personality shift

Post by SarathW »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:47 am Interesting stuff! It sounds familiar and nothing to worry about.
Don't expect it to last forever, change will happen pretty fast.
The main advice I would give is to stay grounded, and not become lost in your head and concepts.
Because from the place you are now, I have seen some people spiral into delusion and mental problems. Stay grounded and stay real.
:goodpost:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
maniture_85
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by maniture_85 »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:47 am Interesting stuff! It sounds familiar and nothing to worry about.
Don't expect it to last forever, change will happen pretty fast.
The main advice I would give is to stay grounded, and not become lost in your head and concepts.
Because from the place you are now, I have seen some people spiral into delusion and mental problems. Stay grounded and stay real.
It is already happening, unfortunately, that's why i'm here eheh.
You got the point. I see something dangerous in this. By this experience i was able to reach a point where i realized that the reality i lived in the childhood is the same reality i'm living now, and contemplate this concept for days. It may sound stupid if you didn't have this experience, but it made all bad ruminations and toughts totally irrelevant as part of a bad dream.
It is not just a matter of feeling good or bad, it's more like completely change reality, enter a different reality. So nice, but VERY strange.
I also lightly feel those changes in form of space deformation during the day when i see this change. I try to stay concentrate but i can no longer sustain it for a long time and deformation comes. Consciousness is there, i'm calm but some delusion tend to be in place.
I think i need to read about some similar experiences of proper lectures because all of this is new for me, except for one life-changing experience which was the same but lasted for just some minutes and only during meditation practice, not for days during daily life. Can you suggest something?
Thanks for your help!
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Personality shift

Post by JamesTheGiant »

At the monastery and meditation centre, if someone started to get a bit lost in their head, the teacher advised:

Physical work to get them back in touch with their body.
Cutting back on eyes-closed meditation.
During eyes closed meditation, stop single-pointed meditation, and instead do body awareness.

Also we did take people to the emergency mental health team if they got really bad... There was a doctor on their team who also did meditation and knew how it could go wrong.

It is worth googling "willoughby britton meditation", she's a scientist and meditator who has done some research on negative effects of meditation.

Good luck!
Jack19990101
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:40 am

Re: Personality shift

Post by Jack19990101 »

It is direct knowledge of the process of vanishing or disbanding.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Personality shift

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Jack19990101 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:31 am It is direct knowledge of the process of vanishing or disbanding.
No, the description is totally different from that. Strongly disagree.
maniture_85
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by maniture_85 »

Jack19990101 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:31 am It is direct knowledge of the process of vanishing or disbanding.
I think James is correct.
It somehow has something to do with impermanence and vanishing, but it's different. I used to investigate impermanence time ago, and i can say it has something different. I used to "see" a thought disappear observing the sensation and the vanishing of it and it's relative mental image. There was very specific phenomena observed and then seen to vanish.
In this case the object looks to me to be the whole reality. Observing reality changing, as i experimented it, is like changing space/time, being able to feel in a better world with the use of the will. And impermanence looks not to be the main "focus". The focus is more on some kind of space distorsion, on the effects of body sensations related to this reality change, on the relation i have with the world, which can be sometimes and somehow manipulated.
Maybe i can explain a simile.
Imagine you have ended a great love story and you are sick for it. You live like a nightmare maybe. Years after that you think about it and you really don't care, that suffering looks like an old dream.
It happens with strong concentration and mindfulness that you can experiment this change in a split of a second.
I must underline, this doesn't compromise comprension of what i'm living, or common "reality". Rather it improves it, and it shows we all have many false beliefs that makes us blind.
maniture_85
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by maniture_85 »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:47 am Interesting stuff! It sounds familiar and nothing to worry about.
Don't expect it to last forever, change will happen pretty fast.
The main advice I would give is to stay grounded, and not become lost in your head and concepts.
Because from the place you are now, I have seen some people spiral into delusion and mental problems. Stay grounded and stay real.
Days have passed.
I definitely can no longer enter that state with that intensity, i can just have a taste from time to time, but it's almost out of my control.
But it seems that a vague sensation is still in place, and it can be noticed all day long, like it is always present.
Something about space has been learned. Reflecting on this i can say that, at the end, space exist.
I already knew this, but now it's somehow different.
Then, if i was able to intentionally enter that state, that means it's my own full responsibility to keep myself in a positive mind/body state, by entering wholesome states and positively interacting with the environment. Dangers of illusions are very big and must be avoided.
But all of this, is actually very critical. It's like feeling that most of the life has been wasted. I have been a victim, and i have made victims.
And now you can see it and pay on your body. You can pay both feeling bad for being a victim, or pay feeling bad for having made victims.
Ultimately, you can pay for being your own victim.
All of this has to be avoided. It looks to me to be the very root cause of most sufferings. They can directly be the cause of suffering in the present moment. Mastering the present moment, i'm sure, requires this deep knowledge. At a certain point, this knowledge will become insight.
When insight comes, then there is something new that comes in help. The mind intuitively knows what's dangerous, and any harmful tought is automatically rejected. It's not because of the will. It's because mind automatically knows how to maintain that state and rejects everything that's toxic or can disbalance that state. And i was perfectly lucid. So, we have another will taking control. One who really know how to keep us safe and happy? Who is this?
For sure it is the agent who makes it possible for this state to look self-sustaining.

Another important point is character.
I'm noticing one can actually change his character by will and concentration, at least to a certain degree and toward certain results. When it works well, it becomes far more easy to obtain loving and very gentle responses from other people, for example. Actually, one can find that the world changes.
It's a matter of managing sensations. So, i feel like you can manipulate yourself by manipulating the way you manage sensations. Then one can find greed, fear, etc. are all illusions.
A common person "tries" to change character by behaving differently in certain situations, but fails. I'm not referring to this kind of change, i refer to an actual change, sustained for a precise ( and quite short, but still extendible ) period of time.
Far away to master this, i was able to see it working in some situations. I had experience that the self is truly not existing. But for the first time, i managed to build the entire experience by will and "prove by myself that self does not exist" ( sounds strange, but still ).
I feel like i could try to enter a certain state in order to try to manipulate others, just for test. But for some reasons it doesn't look a good idea to me, and i know it will bring suffering to both.

Now, i try to contemplate everything, working only when it's strictly necessary, and live more. I've found physical activity works so well in order to contain all the above, and i actually walk many hours a day. Strangely, practicing concentration and awareness walking around my city looks very, very fruitful.
I'm managing to stay real and grounded, and i'm getting only benefits and good feedbacks from the world i interact with.
But what place are you talking about? I can just provide a description of experience and toughts i have made.
I struggle to find informations or people with similar knowledge/experience. And i feel that if one didn't experience the same as i did, one will never be able to really understand many of the concepts.
Maarten
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:14 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by Maarten »

Thx for sharing your story, it's very inspiring to hear! When I started meditation I couldn't keep my mind quiet for more than 3 seconds :smile:

Even though you're probably not enlightened it sounds like you are doing great! Just enjoy the fruits of your practice. If you keep on making improvements like this, you'll surely become an Ariya fast! :twothumbsup:
'Suppose there were a beetle, a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of him. He, because of that, would look down on other beetles: 'Yes, sirree! I am a dung-eater, full of dung, gorged with dung, with a huge pile of dung in front of me!' - SN 17.5
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by Aloka »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:37 am d like to share some toughts and experiences i'm having this period, any comment is welcome.
Hi maniture85,

There are a lot of repetitions of the word "I " in your posts, which might require some reflection.

Do you have a job? if not, perhaps you could find a way of volunteering to help other sentient beings less fortunate than yourself.

....Otherwise relax! Get out in the open air more, eat sensibly and do some daily exercise.

:anjali:

PS. I agree with James when he said "Cutting back on eyes-closed meditation."

One can also meditate successfully with ones eyes open or partly open and focused in the direction of the end of the nose.
maniture_85
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by maniture_85 »

Aloka wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:12 am
maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:37 am d like to share some toughts and experiences i'm having this period, any comment is welcome.
Hi maniture85,

There are a lot of repetitions of the word "I " in your posts, which might require some reflection.

Do you have a job? if not, perhaps you could find a way of volunteering to help other sentient beings less fortunate than yourself.

....Otherwise relax! Get out in the open air more, eat sensibly and do some daily exercise.

:anjali:

PS. I agree with James when he said "Cutting back on eyes-closed meditation."

One can also meditate successfully with ones eyes open or partly open and focused in the direction of the end of the nose.
I will reflect on it.
I used to work in finance industry, but have significantly diminished the working time the last years. I decided to dedicate most of my time to understand life and dhamma because of existential delusion. Currently, i'm having very nice results meditating by walking.
To be honest i've not been diligent in my formal meditation practices the last 6 months. I used to be mindful and to reflect on dhamma many hours per day. I feel this experience needs a good degree of concentration to happen. So, where is that concentration coming from if i'm meditating a couple of hours per week?
I know that for many people i may look too worried about experiences and so i may get lost in toughts. But analytical thinking has always been a great ally for me to advance on the path, that's the way i work. I often get important insight by thinking ( mostly cause-and-effect reflection ) and reading about Dhamma. Bliss may come as consequence. Hope you, more experienced meditators, can understand me and give your opinion/toughts on the experience and toughts i've expressed, in order for me to better figure out the various meanings of such experience.
Last edited by maniture_85 on Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
maniture_85
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Personality shift

Post by maniture_85 »

Maarten wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:02 am Thx for sharing your story, it's very inspiring to hear! When I started meditation I couldn't keep my mind quiet for more than 3 seconds :smile:

Even though you're probably not enlightened it sounds like you are doing great! Just enjoy the fruits of your practice. If you keep on making improvements like this, you'll surely become an Ariya fast! :twothumbsup:
Thank you. In my case, it was reflecting on some life episodes that brought to this experience.
Reflecting on forgiveness: i had to forgive a friend which made very bad actions and now he, me, another person are suffering because of this. Because of ignorance, he produced suffering. Because i didn't forgive him, i suffered. This is the suffering of illwill.
Reflecting on lust: i managed to find all relationships i wanted, but it brought suffering for the most. As consequence, i caused suffering to myself and to others. Because of lust and ego, i suffered. This is the suffering of lust.
Reflecting on ignorance: time ago, i injuried myself half-volountarly in order to get some Ego results, and i meditated on that pain. The illusion is still not there, but injury will be here forever. Because of ignorance, i caused past and future suffering to me. So, i've done probably worse to others and i didn't even notice. Illusions can be very dangerous and bring suffering.

Reflecting on all of this, i realized i cannot pretend to get something in return from my friend and for what he have done. Many girls, i tought it had brought happiness to me, but actually didn't. And as last, how can't i forgive an action if we are all so ignorant? If even i can damage myself for such big ignorance?

I think all of this, if really comprehended, can bring the mind to intuitively discard most of lust-illwill toughts and mental states, even out of formal meditation.
Strive4Karuna
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Personality shift

Post by Strive4Karuna »

maniture_85 wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:37 am I'd like to share some toughts and experiences i'm having this period, any comment is welcome.
One day i noticed that my chest and abdomen, which i Always feel somehow sick because of bad senstions ( and long run anxiety ), were free from any kind of suffering.
This period is lasting a lot, like a couple of weeks.
The point is that i feel a different person. I'm having a boost in mindfulness which manifests itself clearly in many situations, even if i'm not practicing mindfulness. I have many pleasant "flashbacks" of my adolescence and i feel the same happiness and energy. I can have kind of sad toughts without being sad, having a better understanding and a different view of the topic.
Ego looks particularly reduced, and i often notice when i'm acting guided by ego.
I no longer care about judgements.
Sometimes i'm noticing a new meditation effect while practicing. Chest and abdomen feels void of any sensation or vibration, and the body feels composed by small synchronized particles. Air pressure on the skin is particularly clear, because body borders are so thin that looks not existent.
Sometimes i cannot feel difference between me and the air or the surrounding area.
Sometimes I feel space distorsions, and clearly remember i had this kind of sensation in my childhood, i often had this kind of experience ( at time i was very fashinated by it and i used to investigate it ).
I'm surprised to have noticed that this experience has something in common with those childhood experiences.
Do you have experienced something similar?

Depression and anxiety looks significantly reduced or almost disappeared ( confirmed by a specialist ): it started reducing a couple of months ago and greatly reduced after those meditation experiences.
My parents always said that youth is the best part of life, and the rest is suffering.
I realized it is because so many of us become sick because of ego and bad views. The void i'm experimenting in my daily life makes me able to better feel what i like to do, what is a bad word or a good word, a good action or a bad action. I know when i'm doing something bad/stupid which will bring me suffering. All this knowledge is contained in ourself, and it can explicate itself naturally when we are in a state of peace. In my case, i noticed most important vibrations and sensations comes from chest, abdomen, face, head and back.
It is like a kind of wisdom which naturally explicates itself from the immaterial world to the material world through vibrations, and guides you to make good actions for the good of you and others.
I also realized that true love is possible only if we are in a peaceful state.

One thing worries me a bit. Of course there are times when meditation are not that good and chest and abdomen's emptiness is broken by some bad sensation or from something i started to crave, and i'm no longer able to control those sensations. When it occurs, i feel i'm no longer able to sustain a good tought which i were able to sustain. For example, a friend did a very bad thing to me, but i struggle to feel compassion for him. It looks to me that those bad sensations which sometimes manifests are like a kind of illness, and when i cannot control them then bad actions or bad toughts can take place. It means i'm actually a different person when i have this suffering condition.
It’s not called a personality shift, your just NORMAL like everybody else.

You do things because you CRAVE pleasant feelings.

Your NoT GOOD okay?? You DO things because they make you feel PLEASANT or think will lead to a pleasant feeling in the future.

That’s it.
Post Reply