How to be mindful while reading or studying

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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DooDoot
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:36 pm
DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:16 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:08 pm You are confusing sampajanna with sati-sampajanna
You are the confused one (as posted several times).
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:08 pmSampajanna alone is awareness of the arising, persisting, and passing of an object.
No. Sampajjana means "understanding", as you quoted.
And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu exercise clear comprehension? Here, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu feelings are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away. Thoughts are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away. Perceptions are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a bhikkhu exercises clear comprehension.
:broke: :hello:
:strawman: you're arguing against an irrelevant point

My point was that the view/morality aspect is different from the awareness/knowing aspect.

Hence your quote
For example, being aware of killing in the present moment is not sampajana.
Knowing/understanding that killing is bad requires sati, and therefore right view.

Knowing/understanding that killing has happened does not require sati, and is only sampajanna.

Hence, you confuse sampajanna with morality (sati + right view).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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DooDoot
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:36 pm
:strawman: you're arguing against an irrelevant point

My point was that the view/morality aspect is different from the awareness/knowing aspect.
It is best to stick to suttas rather than accuse others of ignorance when one that is so easily refuted when difficult, if not impossible, to renounce tenaciously held wrong views.
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:08 pm You are confusing sampajanna with sati-sampajanna

Sampajanna alone is awareness of the arising, persisting, and passing of an object.
There is no such thing as "sampajanna alone". Regardless, AN 4.41 below, which is exactly the same as SN 47.35, refutes the wrong view that SN 47.35 is about "sampajana alone". :roll:
And what is the development of concentration that leads to mindfulness and clear comprehension?

Katamā ca, bhikkhave, samādhibhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā satisampajaññāya saṃvattati?

It’s when a bhikkhu understands feelings as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away.

Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno viditā vedanā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti;

They know perceptions as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. They know thoughts as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away.

viditā saññā … pe … viditā vitakkā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.

This is the way of developing immersion further that leads to mindfulness and awareness.

Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, samādhibhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā satisampajaññāya saṃvattati.

AN 4.41
(44) Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them; we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done.

MN 8
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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coconut
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

Post by coconut »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:14 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:36 pm
:strawman: you're arguing against an irrelevant point

My point was that the view/morality aspect is different from the awareness/knowing aspect.
It is best to stick to suttas rather than accuse others of ignorance when one that is so easily refuted when difficult, if not impossible, to renounce tenaciously held wrong views.
And what is the development of concentration that leads to mindfulness and clear comprehension?

Katamā ca, bhikkhave, samādhibhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā satisampajaññāya saṃvattati?

It’s when a bhikkhu understands feelings as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away.

Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno viditā vedanā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti;

They know perceptions as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. They know thoughts as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away.

viditā saññā … pe … viditā vitakkā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.

This is the way of developing immersion further that leads to mindfulness and awareness.

Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, samādhibhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā satisampajaññāya saṃvattati.

AN 4.41
(44) Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them; we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done.

MN 8
:strawman: again, this has nothing to do with what I wrote about.
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:17 pm ...
(44) Others will misapprehend according to their individual views, hold on to them tenaciously and not easily discard them; we shall not misapprehend according to individual views nor hold on to them tenaciously, but shall discard them with ease — thus effacement can be done.

MN 8
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:36 pm Knowing/understanding that killing is bad requires sati, and therefore right view.

Knowing/understanding that killing has happened does not require sati, and is only sampajanna.

Hence, you confuse sampajanna with morality (sati + right view).
No. It is the above that is confused. Sampajana is right view or a factor of wisdom.

It is not a factor of concentration, as you are wrongly saying. :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

Post by coconut »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:21 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:36 pm Knowing/understanding that killing is bad requires sati, and therefore right view.

Knowing/understanding that killing has happened does not require sati, and is only sampajanna.

Hence, you confuse sampajanna with morality (sati + right view).
No. You are the one confused. Sampajana is right view or a factor of wisdom.
Sutta source?
It is not a factor of concentration, as you are wrong saying. :smile:
Where did I say that?
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:22 pm Where did I say that?... Sutta source?
You are saying sampajana is awareness of something without wisdom.

We already posted suttas, where "viditā" means "understood".

For example, in MN 66 and SN 12.17, the word "vidita" means "to understand" rather than merely "experience with bare awareness", as follows:
Because I understand the diversity of faculties as it applies to this person.

Indriyavemattatā hi me, udāyi, imasmiṃ puggale viditā.

MN 66
However, I have recognized individual differences.

Api ca mayā puggalavemattatā viditā”ti.

SN 12.17
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

Post by coconut »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:25 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:22 pm Where did I say that?... Sutta source?
You are saying sampajana is awareness of something without wisdom.

We already posted suttas, where "viditā" means "understood".

For example, in MN 66 and SN 12.17, the word "vidita" means "to understand" rather than merely "experience with bare awareness", as follows:
Because I understand the diversity of faculties as it applies to this person.

Indriyavemattatā hi me, udāyi, imasmiṃ puggale viditā.

MN 66
However, I have recognized individual differences.

Api ca mayā puggalavemattatā viditā”ti.

SN 12.17

Can you quote where I said that? Are you sure didn't misunderstand me like the multiple times you've misunderstood me and then quickly deleted your post?

Also your sutta source doesn't support your argument that "Sampajana is right view or a factor of wisdom"
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:33 pm Can you quote where I said that? Are you sure didn't misunderstand me like the multiple times you've misunderstood me and then quickly deleted your post?
The above is gibberish.
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:33 pmAlso your sutta source doesn't support your argument that "Sampajana is right view or a factor of wisdom"
The sutta source clearly says sampajana is knowledge/discernment rather than awareness.

Try to study more.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

Post by coconut »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:37 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:33 pm Can you quote where I said that? Are you sure didn't misunderstand me like the multiple times you've misunderstood me and then quickly deleted your post?
The above is gibberish.
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:33 pmAlso your sutta source doesn't support your argument that "Sampajana is right view or a factor of wisdom"
The sutta source clearly says sampajana is knowledge rather than awareness.

I don't see "sampajanna" anywhere in your quotes.
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:39 pm I don't see "sampajanna" anywhere in your quotes.
You quoted a sutta. I re-quoted the Pali in that sutta & its meaning. But you fail to comprehend & appear out of your depth; like a student that believes they are a teacher.

Sampajana:
And how is a bhikkhu clear comprehending ?
Kathañca, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sampajāno hoti?

It’s when a bhikkhu understands feelings as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away.
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno viditā vedanā uppajjanti, viditā upaṭṭhahanti, viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
What does "viditā" mean?
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

Post by coconut »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:40 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:39 pm I don't see "sampajanna" anywhere in your quotes.
You quoted a sutta. I re-quoted the Pali in that sutta & its meaning. But you fail to comprehend & appear out of your depth; like a student that believes they are a teacher.
Poor dootdoot getting mixed up in arguments, doesn't know what he's arguing anymore.
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:43 pm Poor dootdoot getting mixed up in arguments, doesn't know what he's arguing anymore.
Its hard to see the point of you posting here when you deny the Dhamma and are unable to learn.

The suttas literally say "sampajāno" is "viditā".

The suttas literally say "viditā" means "understanding with knowledge".
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:44 pm
coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:43 pm Poor dootdoot getting mixed up in arguments, doesn't know what he's arguing anymore.
The suttas literally say "sampajāno" is "viditā".
I don't think you know what "literally" means
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Re: How to be mindful while reading or studying

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coconut wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:48 pm I don't think you know what literally means
I exactly know what it means, per the suttas & per practice. MN 118, for example, literally says there can be no anapanasati for one without sampajana. Therefore, sampajana cannot be something that is merely passively aware of unwholesome hindering mental states.

While Wiki is not exactly right (because suttas are clear yet brief), Wiki does express the common consensus:
While the nikayas do not elaborate on what the Buddha meant by sampajañña, the Pali commentaries analyze it further in terms of four contexts for one's comprehension:

* purpose (Pāli: sātthaka): refraining from activities irrelevant to the path.
* suitability (sappāya): pursuing activities in a dignified and careful manner.
* domain (gocara):[12] maintaining sensory restraint consistent with mindfulness.
* non-delusion (asammoha): seeing the true nature of reality (see three characteristics).
I have posted many suttas to refute your wrong views. You have quoted nothing from the suttas. :smile:

:strawman: :jedi:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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