when u contemplate body, feeling, mind, dhamma
there is centre heaviness increasing as if it is observer (however it is just another process of cognition and feeling) but how to get rid of that ?
satipattana sutta and beingness problem
- confusedlayman
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satipattana sutta and beingness problem
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
Generally theravada satipattana does neither counter 'I' nor intuitive self-beingness. Satipattana of body #4, #5 and #6 may counter self/'I' only in case there is strong self-identification with body.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
the mind can observe independent of intention to observe
for example, if there is a loud explosion, the mind hears the sound without intention to hear the sound
the "heaviness" of the observer is the intention to observe
the "heaviness" of the observer is also the suppression of the five hindrances by an observer that commits the three unskillful actions (refer to AN 10.61) which are the food of the five hindrances
just as a person that eats junk food becomes obese & heavy, so do the five hindrances become obese & heavy of the person that indulges in the three unskillful actions
the way to get rid of "heaviness" is to purify one's bodily, verbal & mental actions and, once done, then giving up the intention to observe so the mind can observe naturally & optimally
for example, if there is a loud explosion, the mind hears the sound without intention to hear the sound
the "heaviness" of the observer is the intention to observe
the "heaviness" of the observer is also the suppression of the five hindrances by an observer that commits the three unskillful actions (refer to AN 10.61) which are the food of the five hindrances
just as a person that eats junk food becomes obese & heavy, so do the five hindrances become obese & heavy of the person that indulges in the three unskillful actions
the way to get rid of "heaviness" is to purify one's bodily, verbal & mental actions and, once done, then giving up the intention to observe so the mind can observe naturally & optimally
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
- confusedlayman
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Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
Thanks... mind can observe naturally is what i will do...DooDoot wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:39 pm the mind can observe independent of intention to observe
for example, if there is a loud explosion, the mind hears the sound without intention to hear the sound
the "heaviness" of the observer is the intention to observe
the "heaviness" of the observer is also the suppression of the five hindrances by an observer that commits the three unskillful actions (refer to AN 10.61) which are the food of the five hindrances
just as a person that eats junk food becomes obese & heavy, so do the five hindrances become obese & heavy of the person that indulges in the three unskillful actions
the way to get rid of "heaviness" is to purify one's bodily, verbal & mental actions and, once done, then giving up the intention to observe so the mind can observe naturally & optimally
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
will satipattana sutta describe escape from thoughts? or stuck in cycle of thoughts?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
cycle of thoughts is due to not maintaining the five precepts, including having wrong view about the 3rd preceptconfusedlayman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:02 pm will satipattana sutta describe escape from thoughts? or stuck in cycle of thoughts?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
The beingness is due to liking and disliking or push/pull towards what is being observed. There is no easy way other than the practice of sense restraint and watching the arising and passing of the feelings.confusedlayman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:35 pm when u contemplate body, feeling, mind, dhamma
there is centre heaviness increasing as if it is observer (however it is just another process of cognition and feeling) but how to get rid of that ?
Beingness is the conceit "I am". That centredness or "knower"."Monks, the ending of the fermentations is for one who knows & sees, I tell you, not for one who does not know & does not see. For one who knows what & sees what? Appropriate attention & inappropriate attention. When a monk attends inappropriately, unarisen fermentations arise, and arisen fermentations increase. When a monk attends appropriately, unarisen fermentations do not arise, and arisen fermentations are abandoned. There are fermentations to be abandoned by seeing, those to be abandoned by restraining, those to be abandoned by using, those to be abandoned by tolerating, those to be abandoned by avoiding, those to be abandoned by dispelling, and those to be abandoned by developing.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"When a monk's fermentations that should be abandoned by seeing have been abandoned by seeing, his fermentations that should be abandoned by restraining have been abandoned by restraining, his fermentations that should be abandoned by using have been abandoned by using, his fermentations that should be abandoned by tolerating have been abandoned by tolerating, his fermentations that should be abandoned by avoiding have been abandoned by avoiding, his fermentations that should be abandoned by dispelling have been abandoned by dispelling, his fermentations that should be abandoned by developing have been abandoned by developing, then he is called a monk who dwells restrained with the restraint of all the fermentations. He has severed craving, thrown off the fetters, and — through the right penetration of conceit — has made an end of suffering & stress."
"Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya.
"When, Bahiya, for you in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognized is merely what is cognized, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that.' When, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .irel.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
- confusedlayman
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Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
this topic can be closed..
beingness is just a perception of thick feeling in middle of chest... it is acknowledged for what it is... feeling arise due to cause and condition and as long as its known as feeling, there is no danger...
beingness is just a perception of thick feeling in middle of chest... it is acknowledged for what it is... feeling arise due to cause and condition and as long as its known as feeling, there is no danger...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
the goal of satipatthana is the cessation of beingness (bhava)confusedlayman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:53 pm this topic can be closed..
beingness.. is acknowledged for what it is...
this topic is not closed but has not even begun
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
- confusedlayman
- Posts: 6258
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
- Location: Human Realm (as of now)
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
cessation of beingness in mind or physical feeling?DooDoot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:44 pmthe goal of satipatthana is the cessation of beingness (bhava)confusedlayman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:53 pm this topic can be closed..
beingness.. is acknowledged for what it is...
this topic is not closed but has not even begun
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
beingness = bhava = identity
in Emptiness, there is no bhava but there is five aggregates ('kaya')The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming: This, friend Visakha, is the origination of self-identification described by the Blessed One.
MN 44
if we learn Nagarjuna/SteRo nonsense but post question on Theravada forum, we just cause confusion for ourself & trouble for othersThey understand: ‘This field of perception is empty of the perception of sensuality, beingness (bhava), and ignorance. There is only this that is not emptiness, namely that associated with the six sense fields dependent on this group/body ('kaya') conditioned by life.’
MN 121
buddha teach there is five aggregates without clinging and five aggregates with clinging. five aggregates without clinging equals emptiness
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: satipattana sutta and beingness problem
Cessation of beingness, as i understand, is the direct experiance of our khandhas as ownerless.
There is body, but its not experianced as my body; there is feelings, perceptions, formations, sense impressions (consciousness) are here but they not experianced as me, mine, for me, because of me, my self, expression of who i am etc... You feel free about what happens with them, you are not bound to them, mind is not affected by them... you experiance them as outside phenomenas, not yours and they not touching "you", you have perspective (right view) on them, there is space between arising phenomenas and mind...
So it have a mental base (wisdom quality) but it also apply to physical experiences.
Imho
We don't live Samsara, Samsara is living us...
"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"
"Form, feelings, perceptions, formations, consciousness - don't care about us, we don't exist for them"