SarathW wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:58 pm
Ontheway wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:27 pm
SarathW wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:35 pm
Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
In the following video Ven. Vijithananda argues that Sotapanna is not a fixed state.
You are a Sotapanna only when you practice Staipathana correctly(Pajanati) and in the sate of without self-view (Sakkhaya Ditthi).
When you are not in the state of Pajanati you are not a Sotapanna.
Only the Arahant has the fixed state of Pajanati. (Sakkhaya ditthi fully eliminated)
Samma Dithi Sutta disc five - Counter 44.00
https://soundcloud.com/medamawatha
Is this teaching now popular in Sri Lanka?
It is somewhat similar to what Sammitiyas, Vajjiputiyas, Sarvastivadin, and Mahasanghikas proposed: the Arahantship can fall and revert.
Can you provide some references, please?
For instance, if Sotapanna has an intimate private relationship with his/her partner, is that person has a Sotapanna mental state?
If you read Kathavathu, in the past during the time of Asoka reign, Sammitiyas, Vajjiputiyas, Sarvastivadin, and Mahasanghikas proposed that the Arahantship attainment can fall and revert.
So I just wonder if Ven. Vijithananda's idea that "Sotapanna is not a fixed state" could be drawn from the above idea.
Btw, I disagree with Ven. Vijithananda's idea.
If we read the Suttas such as Ratana Sutta, Mahanama Sutta, Suttas from Okkantisamyutta etc., the Buddha clearly mentioned that by utterly cutting off three obstacles: Sakkaya Ditthi, vicikkiccha, and Silabbata paramasa, one reach Sotapanna sainthood (Ratana Sutta). Or some Suttas also mentioned the possession of four factors: unwavering confidence to Buddha, unwavering confidence to Dhamma, unwavering confidence to Sangha, and possess virtues unbroken, unblotched ...etc that are dear to wise ones (Mahaparinibbana Sutta). Also in the various Suttas, the Buddha stated four training factors leading to Sotapatti Magga and Phala:
"Sappurisasaṃsevo, saddhammassavanaṃ, yonisomanasikāro, dhammānudhammappaṭipatti" (SN 55.5)
So from all these information, we can see that:
One need to take up four training factors, utterly get rid of three obstacles, gaining four factors; in order to gain Sotapatti Phala. Of course, in the past during Buddha's time, the wise laymen and laywomen can easily gain Sotapatti Phala because they have good merits to support them, with open heart and listen to Buddha's Dhamma sermon with full confidence and concentration.
By practising the four training factors, one capable of utterly destroying the three obstacles and gaining four factors. Once successful, for such a person, Sotapatti Phala is reached and it is said "entered the Stream". And one conclusive Sutta pointed this:
Cakkhu Sutta (Samyutta Nikaya)
"Someone who understands and sees these principles is called a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld,
bound for awakening.”
https://suttacentral.net/sn25.1/en/sujato
Since they (Sotapannas) are bound to Awakening, it is impossible for them for revert as Puthujjanas. They abandoned Sakkaya Ditthi, vicikkiccha and Silabbata paramasa; not capable of doing six heinous crimes, gained full confidence to Triple Gems and have virtues dear to wise ones, they bound for Enlightenment.
Negligence of practice may only affect their speed in achieving Arahantship. Some might diligent, have a sense of urgency, they will attain Enlightenment faster. Some might negligent in practice, busy with daily lives, for these people they will be trapped in Samsara no more than seven lives. Therefore, Sotapanna is considered as Sekha disciples and still have "left-overs", much things need to be done.
A sutta (AN 9:12) pointed this:
"These foolish, incompetent wanderers following other paths: who are they to know whether someone has something left over or not? These are the nine people who, dying with something left over, are exempt from hell, the animal realm, and the ghost realm. They’re exempt from places of loss, bad places, the underworld.
Up until now, Sāriputta, I have not felt the need to give this exposition of the teaching to the monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen. Why is that? For I didn’t want those who heard it to introduce negligence. However, I have spoken it in order to answer your question.”
https://suttacentral.net/an9.12/en/sujato
Quote:
"For instance, if Sotapanna has an intimate private relationship with his/her partner, is that person has a Sotapanna mental state?"
Not so, the field of attainment is entirely different here.
Sotapanna did not eliminate sensual lust and ill-will.
It is the Sakadagami that reduced the tendency of sensual lust and ill-will.
Only by the stage of Anagami, sensual lust and ill-will are completely uprooted.
So, sensual lust and ill-will may still occurs occasionally in Sotapannas, because they did not uproot them yet.
Eg:
1) Lady Visakha have many children;
2) Sakka Devaraja was fending off against the Asuras' attacks;
3) Anathapindika was agitated and chase out his house residing Devas;
4) Vessavana Maharaja permit the punishment for the Yakkhas who violated the Sangha as stated in Atanatiya Sutta.
Sotapatti Magga mental state occurs numerous times when one haven't attain Sotapatti Phala yet, but once he/she attained Sotapatti Phala, he/she is the Sotapanna, impossible revert back to Puthujjana.