Is Sotapanna a fixed state?

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SarathW
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Is Sotapanna a fixed state?

Post by SarathW »

Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

In the following video Ven. Vijithananda argues that Sotapanna is not a fixed state.
You are a Sotapanna only when you practice Staipathana correctly(Pajanati) and in the sate of without self-view (Sakkhaya Ditthi).
When you are not in the state of Pajanati you are not a Sotapanna.
Only the Arahant has the fixed state of Pajanati. (Sakkhaya ditthi fully eliminated)

Samma Dithi Sutta disc five - Counter 44.00

https://soundcloud.com/medamawatha
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retrofuturist
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sarath,

This is nonsense. That is not how it works. Where do you find these unnecessary and wrong teachings?

:shrug:

The worldling sees as a worldling, the arahant sees as an arahant, the sotapanna can see either correctly or incorrectly.

MN 1 alone debunks this nonsense.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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cappuccino
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by cappuccino »

The word sotāpanna literally means
a stream that leads to nibbāna.


& certain to happen
SarathW
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by SarathW »

retrofuturist wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm Greetings Sarath,

This is nonsense. That is not how it works. Where do you find these unnecessary and wrong teachings?

The worldling sees as a worldling, the arahant sees as an arahant, the sotapanna can see either correctly or incorrectly.

MN 1 alone debunks this nonsense.

Metta,
Paul. :)
It appears to me that you still have the self view.
:tongue:
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retrofuturist
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:39 pm It appears to me that you still have the self view.
Non-sequitur (much like the summary of the link provided). But then, it takes an arahant to remove asmi-mana.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by JamesTheGiant »

Sarath, you should stop listening to this bhikkhu. He may be a good speaker, but he is plainly wrong.
SarathW wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:35 pm Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

In the following video Ven. Vijithananda argues that Sotapanna is not a fixed state.
You are a Sotapanna only when you practice Staipathana correctly(Pajanati) and in the sate of without self-view...
SarathW
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by SarathW »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:37 am Sarath, you should stop listening to this bhikkhu. He may be a good speaker, but he is plainly wrong.
SarathW wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:35 pm Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

In the following video Ven. Vijithananda argues that Sotapanna is not a fixed state.
You are a Sotapanna only when you practice Staipathana correctly(Pajanati) and in the sate of without self-view...
If you know Abhidhamma you will not think like this.
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
char101
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by char101 »

The state of ariya-puggala is reached via elimination of kilesa. Elimination means what has been eliminated will not reappear. Thus it is fixed.

If we are talking about jhana, it is not a fixed state, because it is reached via suppression. What is only suppressed will reappear later.
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:49 am If you know Abhidhamma you will not think like this.
:D
I doubt the Abhidhamma would so blatantly disregard the Sutta in relation to what a Sotapanna is, but feel free to substantiate your position if you can.

:popcorn:

Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by SarathW »

Sotapanna state is a mind moment.
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:57 am Sotapanna state is a mind moment.
The path and the fruition are mind moments (in Abhidhamma), but that doesn't change what sotapanna means in the Buddha's teaching.

You can be a sotapanna without experiencing the fruit of the path every waking moment.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
SarathW
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by SarathW »

You can be a sotapanna without experiencing the fruit of the path every waking moment.
The way I understand Sotapanna can be a married person and still can enjoy sensual pleasures.
When he enjoy sensual pleasures with his wife, he can't be a Sotapanna.
:mrgreen:
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:10 am The way I understand Sotapanna can be a married person and still can enjoy sensual pleasures.
When he enjoy sensual pleasures with his wife, he can't be a Sotapanna.
Only if doing such things would cause the re-arising of embodiment view, doubt, misapprehension of habitual and vowed observances and other abandoned fetters. This is certainly not a possibility that the Abhidhamma would countenance.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by TRobinson465 »

Well, i guess you could argue that the title is technically correct. Sotapanna isnt a 'fixed' state becuase you can go from the state of sotapanna to the state of arahant like ananda did.
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SamD
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!

Post by SamD »

I listened to the said sermon (from 44.00 to 50.00) but didn't find venereble saying what Sarath claimed?

He is not saying sotapanna is not a fixed state but sotapatti magga nana is not a fixed state. It comes and it passes. Then he denounce various romanticized beliefs about sotapanna. Like only wearing white cloths, always wanting to meditate, not eating meat...

He seems to be attacking the romanticized notion of sotapanna person. Not the sotapatti moment?
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