Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
In the following video Ven. Vijithananda argues that Sotapanna is not a fixed state.
You are a Sotapanna only when you practice Staipathana correctly(Pajanati) and in the sate of without self-view (Sakkhaya Ditthi).
When you are not in the state of Pajanati you are not a Sotapanna.
Only the Arahant has the fixed state of Pajanati. (Sakkhaya ditthi fully eliminated)
Samma Dithi Sutta disc five - Counter 44.00
https://soundcloud.com/medamawatha
Is Sotapanna a fixed state?
Is Sotapanna a fixed state?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Greetings Sarath,
This is nonsense. That is not how it works. Where do you find these unnecessary and wrong teachings?
The worldling sees as a worldling, the arahant sees as an arahant, the sotapanna can see either correctly or incorrectly.
MN 1 alone debunks this nonsense.
Metta,
Paul.
This is nonsense. That is not how it works. Where do you find these unnecessary and wrong teachings?
The worldling sees as a worldling, the arahant sees as an arahant, the sotapanna can see either correctly or incorrectly.
MN 1 alone debunks this nonsense.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
The word sotāpanna literally means
a stream that leads to nibbāna.
& certain to happen
a stream that leads to nibbāna.
& certain to happen
Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
It appears to me that you still have the self view.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:24 pm Greetings Sarath,
This is nonsense. That is not how it works. Where do you find these unnecessary and wrong teachings?
The worldling sees as a worldling, the arahant sees as an arahant, the sotapanna can see either correctly or incorrectly.
MN 1 alone debunks this nonsense.
Metta,
Paul.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Greetings Sarath,
Metta,
Paul.
Non-sequitur (much like the summary of the link provided). But then, it takes an arahant to remove asmi-mana.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Sarath, you should stop listening to this bhikkhu. He may be a good speaker, but he is plainly wrong.
Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
If you know Abhidhamma you will not think like this.JamesTheGiant wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:37 am Sarath, you should stop listening to this bhikkhu. He may be a good speaker, but he is plainly wrong.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
The state of ariya-puggala is reached via elimination of kilesa. Elimination means what has been eliminated will not reappear. Thus it is fixed.
If we are talking about jhana, it is not a fixed state, because it is reached via suppression. What is only suppressed will reappear later.
If we are talking about jhana, it is not a fixed state, because it is reached via suppression. What is only suppressed will reappear later.
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Greetings Sarath,
Metta,
Paul.
I doubt the Abhidhamma would so blatantly disregard the Sutta in relation to what a Sotapanna is, but feel free to substantiate your position if you can.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Sotapanna state is a mind moment.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Greetings Sarath,
You can be a sotapanna without experiencing the fruit of the path every waking moment.
Metta,
Paul.
The path and the fruition are mind moments (in Abhidhamma), but that doesn't change what sotapanna means in the Buddha's teaching.
You can be a sotapanna without experiencing the fruit of the path every waking moment.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
The way I understand Sotapanna can be a married person and still can enjoy sensual pleasures.You can be a sotapanna without experiencing the fruit of the path every waking moment.
When he enjoy sensual pleasures with his wife, he can't be a Sotapanna.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Only if doing such things would cause the re-arising of embodiment view, doubt, misapprehension of habitual and vowed observances and other abandoned fetters. This is certainly not a possibility that the Abhidhamma would countenance.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
Well, i guess you could argue that the title is technically correct. Sotapanna isnt a 'fixed' state becuase you can go from the state of sotapanna to the state of arahant like ananda did.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Re: Sotapanna is not a fixed state!!
I listened to the said sermon (from 44.00 to 50.00) but didn't find venereble saying what Sarath claimed?
He is not saying sotapanna is not a fixed state but sotapatti magga nana is not a fixed state. It comes and it passes. Then he denounce various romanticized beliefs about sotapanna. Like only wearing white cloths, always wanting to meditate, not eating meat...
He seems to be attacking the romanticized notion of sotapanna person. Not the sotapatti moment?
He is not saying sotapanna is not a fixed state but sotapatti magga nana is not a fixed state. It comes and it passes. Then he denounce various romanticized beliefs about sotapanna. Like only wearing white cloths, always wanting to meditate, not eating meat...
He seems to be attacking the romanticized notion of sotapanna person. Not the sotapatti moment?