Suicide is worse than killing someone else!!!

[SarathW]

Suicide is worse than killing someone else!!!
Ven. Vijithananda argues that suicide (Vibhava Tanha) is the worst of all unwholesome actions.
Angulimala killed many thousand people but he still became an Arahant because he lived to learn and practice Dhamma.
Killing oneself is called "Niyat Mitcca Ditthi" (worst wrong views)
However, killing oneself for the benefit of others is Bhava Tanha. Bodhisatva killed oneself to be for the food of a tiger.
It appears to be a better Kamma than suicide.


Counter 35 disc 9 Samma Ditthisutta

https://soundcloud.com/medamawatha

[cappuccino]

Bodhisatva killed oneself to be for the food of a tiger.

The Jātaka tales are fiction

stories that describe imaginary events and people.

[Lucas Oliveira]

AN 3.99
Lonaphala Sutta: The Salt Crystal

"Monks, for anyone who says, 'In whatever way a person makes kamma, that is how it is experienced,' there is no living of the holy life, there is no opportunity for the right ending of stress. But for anyone who says, 'When a person makes kamma to be felt in such & such a way, that is how its result is experienced,' there is the living of the holy life, there is the opportunity for the right ending of stress.

"There is the case where a trifling evil deed done by a certain individual takes him to hell. There is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by another individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.

"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable.[1] A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

"Suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into a small amount of water in a cup. What do you think? Would the water in the cup become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"Yes, lord. Why is that? There being only a small amount of water in the cup, it would become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink."

"Now suppose that a man were to drop a salt crystal into the River Ganges. What do you think? Would the water in the River Ganges become salty because of the salt crystal, and unfit to drink?"

"No, lord. Why is that? There being a great mass of water in the River Ganges, it would not become salty because of the salt crystal or unfit to drink."

"In the same way, there is the case where a trifling evil deed done by one individual [the first] takes him to hell; and there is the case where the very same sort of trifling deed done by the other individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Angulimala Sutta: About Angulimala

Then Ven. Angulimala, early in the morning, having put on his robes and carrying his outer robe & bowl, went into Savatthi for alms. Now at that time a clod thrown by one person hit Ven. Angulimala on the body, a stone thrown by another person hit him on the body, and a potsherd thrown by still another person hit him on the body. So Ven. Angulimala — his head broken open and dripping with blood, his bowl broken, and his outer robe ripped to shreds — went to the Blessed One. The Blessed One saw him coming from afar and on seeing him said to him: "Bear with it, brahman! Bear with it! The fruit of the kamma that would have burned you in hell for many years, many hundreds of years, many thousands of years, you are now experiencing in the here-&-now!" [3]

Then Ven. Angulimala, having gone alone into seclusion, experienced the bliss of release.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

[2600htz]

Hello:

No, its not the worst of unwholesome actions (its not one of the 5 heinous crimes), its not like killing ones mother or killing an arahant.
But its probably worst than killing some neutral person.

Regards.

[SarathW]

Hello:

No, its not the worst of unwholesome actions (its not one of the 5 heinous crimes), its not like killing ones mother or killing an arahant.
But its probably worst than killing some neutral person.

Regards.

Agree.

[SarathW]

This 'Suicide Pod' ensures 'painless death' in a minute

[cappuccino]

'painless death'

perhaps painful afterlife

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Bodhisatva killed oneself to be for the food of a tiger.

The Jātaka tales are fiction

stories that describe imaginary events and people.

Correct. Relying upon such stories for one's understanding of the Dhamma is to mistake fiction for truth.

Metta,
Paul.

[Nicholas Weeks]

This 'Suicide Pod' ensures 'painless death' in a minute

Very bad idea & machine. If there is nothing more happening inside the machine than "oxygen reduction", that is a horrible, gasping way to die.

Ordinary individuals cannot control our birth time or place or family. Easy death machine is just another comfort craving device that mainly First Worlders with money can use.

[Nicholas Weeks]

Greetings,

Bodhisatva killed oneself to be for the food of a tiger.

The Jātaka tales are fiction

stories that describe imaginary events and people.

Correct. Relying upon such stories for one's understanding of the Dhamma is to mistake fiction for truth.

Metta,
Paul.

Jataka Dhamma parables & metaphors and not fiction but suggestive & beneficial. To ignore or denigrate them is not correct.

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

Greetings,

The Jātaka tales are fiction

stories that describe imaginary events and people.

Correct. Relying upon such stories for one's understanding of the Dhamma is to mistake fiction for truth.

Metta,
Paul.

Jataka Dhamma parables & metaphors and not fiction but suggestive & beneficial. To ignore or denigrate them is not correct.

Even tho' I think Jātaka tales are indeed tales, I absolutely agree & love very much your words of:

• Jataka Dhamma parables & metaphors

• suggestive & beneficial.

• To ignore or denigrate them is not correct.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Jataka Dhamma parables & metaphors and not fiction but suggestive & beneficial. To ignore or denigrate them is not correct.

Actually, yes, they are fictional, but that's not to say as "fables" they have no value.

However, when we take our Dhamma from fables written after the Buddha's passing, rather than from the Buddha's own teachings, then that is what is not correct.

There is mention of suicide in the Suttas and in the Vinaya. We should reference that instruction from the Buddha, rather than fables written after his death, that he had no opportunity to vet.

Metta,
Paul.

[Nicholas Weeks]

Greetings,

Jataka Dhamma parables & metaphors and not fiction but suggestive & beneficial. To ignore or denigrate them is not correct.

Actually, yes, they are fictional, but that's not to say as "fables" they have no value.

However, when we take our Dhamma from fables written after the Buddha's passing, rather than from the Buddha's own teachings, then that is what is not correct.

There is mention of suicide in the Suttas and in the Vinaya. We should reference that instruction from the Buddha, rather than fables written after his death, that he had no opportunity to vet.

Metta,
Paul.

Buddhists, lay & monastic, do not all think & speak & act identically when exposed to the Dhamma & Sangha. One person's "correct" practice or attitude may not fit another's. Live and let live.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

One person's "correct" practice or attitude may not fit another's.

Sure, people can ignore what the Buddha said about that too if they like, but at what point is it no longer Buddhism?

Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained.

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

That seems pretty clear and unambiguous to me.

Metta,
Paul.

[Nicholas Weeks]

Greetings,

One person's "correct" practice or attitude may not fit another's.

[...]
That seems pretty clear and unambiguous to me.
Metta,
Paul.

As does this one to me; no reason to contend over our choices.

183. To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one’s mind—this is the teaching of the Buddhas.