Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

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SarathW
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Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

Post by SarathW »

Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

In the following video (In Sinhalrase language) Ven. Pitigala Ananada argues that contemplation on Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta, Asubha or the contemplation of Nicca, Sukha, Atta, and Subha also wrong view.
His argument is you contemplate on these based on an existing being.
That is Sakkkaya Ditthi or the self-view.
In his opinion, without going to two extremes of existence or nonexistence we have to contemplate the Dependent Origination.


“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

SarathW wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:27 am Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?
...


Yes, it can very well be of wrong view.

Mogok Sayadaw used to teach: right view first, which in turn calls for prior understanding of DO. In that context, he sometimes referred to SN 22.90 (Ven. Channa's inability to progress despite his contemplation on impermanence, and nonself-ness. Ven. Ananda taught him SN 12.15 on right view based upon DO, and only then, Ven. Channa made the breakthrough to the Dhamma):


SN 22.90
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.90/en/bodhi
  • When this was said, the elder bhikkhus said to the Venerable Channa: “Form, friend Channa, is impermanent, feeling is impermanent, perception is impermanent, volitional formations are impermanent, consciousness is impermanent. Form is nonself, feeling is nonself, perception is nonself, volitional formations are nonself, consciousness is nonself. All formations are impermanent; all phenomena are nonself.”
    Then it occurred to the Venerable Channa: “I too think in this way: ‘Form is impermanent … consciousness is impermanent. Form is nonself … consciousness is nonself. All formations are impermanent; all phenomena are nonself.’ But my mind does not launch out upon the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna; nor does it acquire confidence, settle down, and resolve on it. Instead, agitation and clinging arise and the mind turns back, thinking: ‘But who is my self?’ But such does not happen to one who sees the Dhamma. So who can teach me the Dhamma in such a way that I might see the Dhamma?”
    ...
    ...
    ...
    The Venerable Ānanda then said: “In the presence of the Blessed One I have heard this, friend Channa, in his presence I have received the exhortation he spoke to the bhikkhu Kaccanagotta:
    “This world, Kaccana, for the most part relies upon a duality … (the entire sutta 12:15*** is cited here) … Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.”
    “So it is, friend Ānanda, for those venerable ones who have such compassionate and benevolent brothers in the holy life to admonish and instruct them. And now that I have heard this Dhamma teaching of the Venerable Ānanda, I have made the breakthrough to the Dhamma.”
SN 12.5 (cited in SN 22.90)
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.15/en/bodhi
  • 12.15. Kaccanagotta
    At Savatthī. Then the Venerable Kaccanagotta approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him: “Venerable sir, it is said, ‘right view, right view.’ In what way, venerable sir, is there right view?”
    “This world, Kaccana, for the most part depends upon a duality—upon the notion of existence and the notion of nonexistence. But for one who sees the origin of the world as it really is with correct wisdom, there is no notion of nonexistence in regard to the world. And for one who sees the cessation of the world as it really is with correct wisdom, there is no notion of existence in regard to the world.
    “This world, Kaccana, is for the most part shackled by engagement, clinging, and adherence. But this one with right view does not become engaged and cling through that engagement and clinging, mental standpoint, adherence, underlying tendency; he does not take a stand about ‘my self.’ He has no perplexity or doubt that what arises is only suffering arising, what ceases is only suffering ceasing. His knowledge about this is independent of others. It is in this way, Kaccana, that there is right view. “‘All exists’: Kaccana, this is one extreme. ‘All does not exist’: this is the second extreme. Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma by the middle: ‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations come to be; with volitional formations as condition, consciousness…. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations; with the cessation of volitional formations, cessation of consciousness…. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.”
:heart:
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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confusedlayman
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Re: Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

Post by confusedlayman »

SarathW wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:27 am Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

In the following video (In Sinhalrase language) Ven. Pitigala Ananada argues that contemplation on Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta, Asubha or the contemplation of Nicca, Sukha, Atta, and Subha also wrong view.
His argument is you contemplate on these based on an existing being.
That is Sakkkaya Ditthi or the self-view.
In his opinion, without going to two extremes of existence or nonexistence we have to contemplate the Dependent Origination.


So when u think non self or when u think self u are fabricating a view point and all thoughts fabrication are originated and ends so is that what he says ?
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
SarathW
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Re: Contemplate on Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta is the wrong view?

Post by SarathW »

The way I understand that the Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta, etc are not something you contemplate.
It appears that when you see Dependent Origination (or say practice Satipathana) you realise the Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta.
Perhaps another reason could be that you realise this not on external objects (physical objects).
You realise this as the nature of the mind.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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