Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

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Ontheway
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Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »



What are they talking about?
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Thanks.
I have listen to this in the past.
But why do they call themselves Vibajjavada?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:56 am Thanks.
I have listen to this in the past.
But why do they call themselves Vibajjavada?
Could you translate a bit of what they talking about?

Quote:
"But why do they call themselves Vibajjavada?"

That has to do with what happened during Third Council during Asoka King's reign.

It seems, during that time, aside from many schismatic new buddhist schools, the outsiders (nonBuddhist) and Brahmins also join the Sangha communities in various places (they joined Sangha for wanting King Asoka's lavish offering and support). Some even wearing yellow robe by themselves and start acting like a Buddhist monk. These people are preaching wrong doctrines (such as Eternal Soul and Annihilism) as if they were Buddha's teachings, thus polluting the Saddhamma conserved by the First Council.

An eminent Arahat of this era, the Great Elder Moggaliputta Tissa, knowing this Sangha was plagued by wrong doctrines, decided to leave and have solitary retreat all alone.

Other Arahats of that time, seeing the Sangha community was now plagued with various nonBuddhist teachings and wrong practices, since unable to stop the trend (as the number of schismatic Buddhists and nonBuddhists are in huge number), they make resolution, refuse to join any Uposatha ceremony and Pavarana ceremony. Seven years passed without Uposatha and Pavarana.

Asoka King who was now a Buddhist, want to put a stop for this mess. He sent his minister to request the Arahat Theras to join Uposatha and Pavarana ceremonies, but those Arahats refused to do so with schismatic buddhists and heretics. The minister cut down these bhikkhus' head one by one, and Asoka King's young brother Tissa Thera, managed to stop the carnage. Asoka was deeply saddened by this incident and he was advised to request Arahat Moggaliputta Tissa Thera for solving the mess. Later Arahant Moggaliputta Tissa gave Dhamma talk to King Asoka and establish him in True Sasana.

At last, King Asoka invited Arahat Moggaliputta Tissa, to assist him in "purifying" the Sangha. King Asoka, under the guidance of Arahat Moggaliputta Tissa, questioning all bhikkhus on "What did the Buddha taught?" Those monks held Sassata Ditthi and other wrong views were expelled, total 60,000 of them.

Then, King Asoka encountered a monk answering: "The Blessed One taught Vibhajja-doctrine." King Asoka asked Arahat Moggaliputta Tissa for advise, and the Great Elder approved of this. After this, Arahant Moggaliputta Tissa gathered all Arahats of the time and organized the Third Council of Theravada.

The Third Council was held at Asokarama, hosted by Arahant Moggaliputta Tissa. One thousand Arahats, "learned, endowed with six supernormal powers", joined in this Council. In this Council, Arahat Moggaliputta Tissa expounded Kathavathu, and added this Kathavathu together with the six Abhidhamma books. Together these Arahats compiled the Dhammavinaya into Three Pitakas: Vinaya Pitaka, Sutta Pitaka and Abhidhamma Pitaka. These Arahats also finalized the compilation of Pitakas and no new scriptures will be added.

Later this Pali Tipitaka was brought to Sri Lanka by Arahat Mahinda Thera, thus establishing Mahavihara, the stronghold of Theravada. Now we can see Theravada was the original preserver, Vibhajjavada was another name for Theravada. This Vibhajjavada term was used to differentiate from those 18 schismatic schools.
Last edited by Ontheway on Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

[/ This Vibhajjavada term was used to differentiate from those 18 schismatic schools. quote]
I believe this is the so-called Vibajjavada group that is behind the instigation of the reason Tipitaka Protections Act.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »

Sorry, not 18 but 17.

I think it is better for the Sri Lankan monks to learn from Burmese monks. Burmese monks are quite passionate in preserving Pali Tipitaka. Some Theras in Myanmar even managed to memorise the whole Pali Tipitaka texts without mistakes.

It is better way to preserve the teachings compared to Tipitaka Protections Act.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Ontheway wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:02 am Sorry, not 18 but 17.

I think it is better for the Sri Lankan monks to learn from Burmese monks. Burmese monks are quite passionate in preserving Pali Tipitaka. Some Theras in Myanmar even managed to memorise the whole Pali Tipitaka texts without mistakes.

It is better way to preserve the teachings compared to Tipitaka Protections Act.
I agree with you 100%
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Could you translate a bit of what they talking about?
This is a very long video.
This gathering is all about certain monks in Sri Lanka who started giving different meanings to Pali words.
The prominent monk in this matter was a late venerable Wharaka Abharatnalankara.
We have a long thread on the teaching of this monk.
There is a website based on the teaching of this monk. We also have a long thread on Dhamma Wheel.
https://puredhamma.net/

There is another monk who promotes that Buddha was born in Sri Lanka.
We had a discussion about this monk as well.
A monk named Ven. Meewanapalane Siri Dhammalankara promte this idea.

then there is a monk named Venerable Kiribathgoda Gnananada.
He promotes the idea that people can't attain Arahantship in this life hence they should be aimed to be reborn in Deva worlds.
He also rejects Abhidhamma.
I have another thread about this monk in the Non-English section.

I generally agree with the Vibbajjavada group's concerns.
However, I was disappointed when they proposed Tipitak Protection Act.
It appears that the Tipitaka Protection Act is now kept aside for the time being due to massive objections for this by many monks.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:42 am
Could you translate a bit of what they talking about?
This is a very long video.
This gathering is all about certain monks in Sri Lanka who started giving different meanings to Pali words.
The prominent monk in this matter was a late venerable Wharaka Abharatnalankara.
We have a long thread on the teaching of this monk.
There is a website based on the teaching of this monk. We also have a long thread on Dhamma Wheel.
https://puredhamma.net/

There is another monk who promotes that Buddha was born in Sri Lanka.
We had a discussion about this monk as well.
A monk named Ven. Meewanapalane Siri Dhammalankara promte this idea.

then there is a monk named Venerable Kiribathgoda Gnananada.
He promotes the idea that people can't attain Arahantship in this life hence they should be aimed to be reborn in Deva worlds.
He also rejects Abhidhamma.
I have another thread about this monk in the Non-English section.

I generally agree with the Vibbajjavada group's concerns.
However, I was disappointed when they proposed Tipitak Protection Act.
It appears that the Tipitaka Protection Act is now kept aside for the time being due to massive objections for this by many monks.
Thanks for the general introduction. :bow:
Sorry for late response as it doesn't shows in notification.

Anyway, in the past Sri Lanka has Mahavihara as the traditional orthodox centre of Buddha Dhamma, then it was challenged by newcomers such as Abhayagiri and Jetawanaramaya.

To me, it seems the history is about to replay, Pali Tipitaka that was preserved by Arahantas and recorded by Pubbacariyas (Acariyaparampara) with great patience and endurance for future generations, but now challenged by newcomers such as Warahaka sect, 'Buddha-born-in-Lanka' sect, Kiribathgoda Gnananada's 'Heaven-longing' sect, Dwipitaka sect, etc.

I wonder how long more Buddhasasana can endure in Sri Lanka... :cry: truly "Anicca vata Sankhara, Uppada vaya Dhammino"...
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Ontheway wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:38 pm
I wonder how long more Buddhasasana can endure in Sri Lanka... :cry: truly "Anicca vata Sankhara, Uppada vaya Dhammino"...
I think Buddhism will become stronger in Sri Lanka provided the government is not trying to protect it by the legislations.
Sri Lanka is a Buddhist melting pot at the moment.
You find many monks and lay people declaring that they are Arahants!
Lot of debate going on about the validity of these claims.
They all have a strong following.
The truth will emerge, hopefully.
I can recall there were lot of debate and arguments in Dhamma Wheel.
Now they all have become subdued.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:46 am
Ontheway wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:38 pm
I wonder how long more Buddhasasana can endure in Sri Lanka... :cry: truly "Anicca vata Sankhara, Uppada vaya Dhammino"...
I think Buddhism will become stronger in Sri Lanka provided the government is not trying to protect it by the legislations.
Sri Lanka is a Buddhist melting pot at the moment.
You find many monks and lay people declaring that they are Arahants!
Lot of debate going on about the validity of these claims.
They all have a strong following.
The truth will emerge, hopefully.
I can recall there were lot of debate and arguments in Dhamma Wheel.
Now they all have become subdued.
I think Waharaka sect and Dwipitaka sect are still pretty active ...haha just teasing. :jumping:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Ontheway wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:24 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:46 am
Ontheway wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:38 pm
I wonder how long more Buddhasasana can endure in Sri Lanka... :cry: truly "Anicca vata Sankhara, Uppada vaya Dhammino"...
I think Buddhism will become stronger in Sri Lanka provided the government is not trying to protect it by the legislations.
Sri Lanka is a Buddhist melting pot at the moment.
You find many monks and lay people declaring that they are Arahants!
Lot of debate going on about the validity of these claims.
They all have a strong following.
The truth will emerge, hopefully.
I can recall there were lot of debate and arguments in Dhamma Wheel.
Now they all have become subdued.
I think Waharaka sect and Dwipitaka sect are still pretty active ...haha just teasing. :jumping:
No, it is not a joke.
Waharaka linage is getting stronger as time goes by.
Like many Sri Lankans, even I started to doubt whether Buddha was born in India.

1) Jains stories about Mahavihara is very similar to Buddha's story
2) Why did Buddha choose a place to be born where is teaching last only for three hundred years
3) Sri Lankan language is very close to Pali. Is there any other country like this?
4) If Jains survive why the Buddhism perish in Sri Lanka?
5) How Sri Lanka get so many relics supposed to be Budhha's relics
6) Why there are no records about Buddha in Hindu texts?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:09 am
Ontheway wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:24 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:46 am
I think Buddhism will become stronger in Sri Lanka provided the government is not trying to protect it by the legislations.
Sri Lanka is a Buddhist melting pot at the moment.
You find many monks and lay people declaring that they are Arahants!
Lot of debate going on about the validity of these claims.
They all have a strong following.
The truth will emerge, hopefully.
I can recall there were lot of debate and arguments in Dhamma Wheel.
Now they all have become subdued.
I think Waharaka sect and Dwipitaka sect are still pretty active ...haha just teasing. :jumping:
No, it is not a joke.
Waharaka linage is getting stronger as time goes by.
Like many Sri Lankans, even I started to doubt whether Buddha was born in India.

1) Jains stories about Mahavihara is very similar to Buddha's story
2) Why did Buddha choose a place to be born where is teaching last only for three hundred years
3) Sri Lankan language is very close to Pali. Is there any other country like this?
4) If Jains survive why the Buddhism perish in Sri Lanka?
5) How Sri Lanka get so many relics supposed to be Budhha's relics
6) Why there are no records about Buddha in Hindu texts?
Seriously haha SarathW are you really buying that idea? :rofl:

1) Jainism was defeated by Buddhism at the time of Buddha. Jainism is only flourishing after Buddhism fallen away from orthodoxy and became segmented in India. When they are flourishing, they can write a lot of scriptures to glorify themselves.

2) The teaching didn't last for three hundred years. It lasts for 500 years originally. From what I heard is that Arahant Mahakassapa Thera fortified the Endurance of Sasana till 5000 years by organising the First Council of Arahants. Need to find the source of that info. Even Buddhasasana disappeared in India, it thrives in other places well.

3) Not only Sri Lanka. Thai language is similar too. Eg:
Sun: Adicco (Pali) = Adit (Thai)
Moon: Canda (Pali) = Can (Thai)
Knowledge: Vijja (Pali) = Vijja (Thai)
Wisdom: Panya (Pali) = Panya (Thai)
Defilement: Kilesa (Pali) = Kilet (Thai)
Things (to-do) Kicca (Pali) = Kit (Thai)

It is just borrowing words from one culture to another.

4) Buddhism perished once in Sri Lanka due to foreign powers and weakness of Sinhalese King.

5) Brought over from India.

6) Because the concept of 'Buddha' didn't occurs in Brahmanism. As simple as that. Later Vishnu-ism incorporated Buddha as 9th Avatar. But that's late development of Hinduism.
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Seriously haha SarathW are you really buying that idea? :rofl:
I am open to any rubbish! :tongue:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Ontheway
Posts: 3062
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by Ontheway »

SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:00 am
Seriously haha SarathW are you really buying that idea? :rofl:
I am open to any rubbish! :tongue:
Richard-Dawkins-Quotes-1.jpg
:smile:
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
SarathW
Posts: 21234
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Sri Lankan Dhamma talks

Post by SarathW »

Ontheway wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:24 am
SarathW wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:09 am
Ontheway wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:24 am

I think Waharaka sect and Dwipitaka sect are still pretty active ...haha just teasing. :jumping:
No, it is not a joke.
Waharaka linage is getting stronger as time goes by.
Like many Sri Lankans, even I started to doubt whether Buddha was born in India.

1) Jains stories about Mahavihara is very similar to Buddha's story
2) Why did Buddha choose a place to be born where is teaching last only for three hundred years
3) Sri Lankan language is very close to Pali. Is there any other country like this?
4) If Jains survive why the Buddhism perish in Sri Lanka?
5) How Sri Lanka get so many relics supposed to be Budhha's relics
6) Why there are no records about Buddha in Hindu texts?
Seriously haha SarathW are you really buying that idea? :rofl:

1) Jainism was defeated by Buddhism at the time of Buddha. Jainism is only flourishing after Buddhism fallen away from orthodoxy and became segmented in India. When they are flourishing, they can write a lot of scriptures to glorify themselves.

2) The teaching didn't last for three hundred years. It lasts for 500 years originally. From what I heard is that Arahant Mahakassapa Thera fortified the Endurance of Sasana till 5000 years by organising the First Council of Arahants. Need to find the source of that info. Even Buddhasasana disappeared in India, it thrives in other places well.

3) Not only Sri Lanka. Thai language is similar too. Eg:
Sun: Adicco (Pali) = Adit (Thai)
Moon: Canda (Pali) = Can (Thai)
Knowledge: Vijja (Pali) = Vijja (Thai)
Wisdom: Panya (Pali) = Panya (Thai)
Defilement: Kilesa (Pali) = Kilet (Thai)
Things (to-do) Kicca (Pali) = Kit (Thai)

It is just borrowing words from one culture to another.

4) Buddhism perished once in Sri Lanka due to foreign powers and weakness of Sinhalese King.

5) Brought over from India.

6) Because the concept of 'Buddha' didn't occurs in Brahmanism. As simple as that. Later Vishnu-ism incorporated Buddha as 9th Avatar. But that's late development of Hinduism.
Perhaps the idea that Buddha was born in Sri Lanka could be a result of current world politics. If there is a third world war it is possible that the Sri Lankans will be sided with the China due to their influence. It is not easy to get the support of Sri Lankan people to attack India if the Buddha's birth place was India. I can recall once some Australian people were trying to create a Gallipoli Peninsula in Australia due to some political issue with the Turkey.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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