What century is there in France ?

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SDC
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by SDC »

Buddha Vacana wrote:Can you point out where I was grossly misguided about him, as you seem to suggest?
It. Was. A. Joke.

To paraphrase you, now I remember why I don't post in News anymore... :toilet:
"As fruits fall from the tree, so people too, both young and old, fall when this body breaks." - Raṭṭhapāla (MN 82)
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No_Mind
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by No_Mind »

lyndon taylor wrote:A Jewish friend of mine pointed out to me that the current anti Muslim, anti immigrant movement sweeping the world in the guise of far right political movements has disturbing, deeply troubling parallels to the rise of the Nazi party in pre war Germany, and their hatred of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals and disabled people, etc etc.
This theory has been doing its rounds recently on the net. One example --
Looking at how right-wing populists all over Europe and the U.S. use Islamophobia to push their hateful political agendas, it seems as if Islamophobia has similar functions as anti-Semitism had in the past, such as the construction of Western identity by creating a scapegoat for current issues and challenges. Hence, Islamophobia not only resembles anti-Semitism, but has also replaced anti-Semitism in public discourse.

Are Muslims the new Jews? Islamophobia and anti-Semitism in Europe
The difference is, back in 1935 Jews were not terrorists. Jews never drove a truck into a crowd. Jews did not deserve what happened to them (speaking of anti-Semitism in 1930s Germany not holocaust .. no race deserves a holocaust).

Are all Muslims terrorists? No. There are at most 200,000 Muslim terrorists (from US to Europe to ISIL to Pakistan) .. it is small part of 1 billion Muslims .. 0.02% in fact.

But the problem is when terror attacks happen in San Bernardino or Berlin or Tel Aviv or Mumbai, do Muslims speak up against it .. no.

Being an Indian, I know more about this topic than I would like to know.

For decades and decades I have been pro-Muslim. I changed after 2016 Uri attacks.

Anti-Islamic sentiments prevailing now is not same anti-Semitism in pre-WWII Germany. By and large Muslims deserve their recent reputation.

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Buddha Vacana
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

SDC wrote: It. Was. A. Joke.
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pulga
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by pulga »

No_Mind wrote: But the problem is when terror attacks happen in San Bernardino or Berlin or Tel Aviv or Mumbai, do Muslims speak up against it .. no.
Perhaps Muslims see such acts of terror as internal matters, best debated amongst themselves. From Michael Cook's Forbidding Wrong in Islam:
As to excluded categories, we should start by making explicit something so obvious that it is usually - but not always - taken for granted. Forbidding wrong is a duty of Muslims, not of unbelievers. One author who comments explicitly on
this is Ghazzali, who explains the exclusion of unbelievers with a rhetorical question: since the duty consists in coming to the aid of the faith, how could one of its enemies perform it? In another passage, he explains that the reason why we cannot have an infidel telling a Muslim not to commit adultery is that the infidel would be presuming to exercise an illegitimate authority over the Muslim, and would thus be humiliating him. Of course a Muslim adulterer richly deserves to be humiliated, but not by an infidel, who deserves it even more than the Muslim does. For Ghazzali, then, non-Muslims are not just excluded from obligation, they are not even permitted to engage in forbidding wrong to Muslims. Although we find occasional scholars suggesting that unbelievers could - and even should - play some role in forbidding wrong, we can take Ghazzali' s view as Standard.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
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SDC
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by SDC »

Buddha Vacana wrote:
SDC wrote: It. Was. A. Joke.
Image
Well played. Always double-down on an 11 they say... :roll:

Honestly though, I wish you all the best over the next few weeks.
"As fruits fall from the tree, so people too, both young and old, fall when this body breaks." - Raṭṭhapāla (MN 82)
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Sam Vara
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Sam Vara »

lyndon taylor wrote: I invite anyone supporting far right movements like the National Front to contribute what is your solution for Muslim immigration in Europe
I'm far from supporting "far right movements", but I'm glad to see the acknowledgement of a problem. (Or indeed part of a problem; I'll explain why this is so at the end of this post...)

My solutions would be as follows:

1) Stop mass immigration immediately. (In this, the UK has a somewhat easier task in that it has no land borders with other countries. I know the situation would be more fraught in mainland Europe.)
2) Revoke all treaties which allow free movement of people within the EU; this is, of course, one reason why the UK is leaving Europe.
3) Cease all hostilities against other countries which either contribute to population displacement, or give the moral high ground to those who demand that a particular country accepts refugees.
4) Deport migrants who are in Europe illegally, or who have committed serious crimes there; or who appear to be contributing to radicalisation.
5) Strengthen and clarify immigration policy such that genuine political refugees can be administratively differentiated from economic migrants, and countries can choose people according to criteria they find useful.
6) Implement domestic policies to encourage cultural integration, and prevent radicalisation.

I say "part of a problem", because I have no issue with "Muslim immigration" per se. I strongly believe that Muslims should be allowed to practice their faith in my country, and that they should be allowed to immigrate providing strict entry criteria are observed - which would also apply equally to practitioners of other religions. The two problems which I want to rid us of are unfettered mass immigration which my small overcrowded country cannot cope with; and the importing of undesirable individuals such as violent political radicals, those who are hostile to my culture, and those who cannot contribute to the economy. It is certainly the case that Muslims feature in both categories, but it needs to be stated that it is not their religion which places them there. I would feel the same about Buddhists, if such were the case.

Any country which does not protect itself against these two problems is, I suggest, in trouble.
Last edited by Sam Vara on Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dogmatic
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Dogmatic »

and their hatred of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals
No matter how bad a movement might be, they usually have at least one good idea in there :tongue:
Are all Muslims terrorists? No. There are at most 200,000 Muslim terrorists (from US to Europe to ISIL to Pakistan) .. it is small part of 1 billion Muslims .. 0.02% in fact.

But the problem is when terror attacks happen in San Bernardino or Berlin or Tel Aviv or Mumbai, do Muslims speak up against it .. no.
What is always ignored when it comes to muslims is how moderate these so called "moderate muslims" actually are. 80% of them support sharia law, similar percentages support death for those who leave their religion, etc. After the recent attack in Sweden, the atmosphere on muslim TV channels, even super-moderate ones was like after winning a football world cup final.

Polls show that the vast majority of muslims support ISIS. They might not be part of ISIS, they might not want to do such things themselves, but they do support it. How would we feel about a person who does not murder jews himself but nevertheless is a big, big fan of Nazism ? Would we want such people in our countries, knowing they generally never change their beliefs, not even after generations change ?
Disclaimer, This is my opinion, not stated fact, but I invite anyone supporting far right movements like the National Front to contribute what is your solution for Muslim immigration in Europe, If it involves deporting people you have different religious views from I suggest the problem is not the one you are trying to solve.
You seem to be concerned about radical nazist people living in your country and multiplying. That is exactly how people feel about radical muslims living in their country. The vast majority muslims in Britain support sharia law and probably support ISIS. And unlike in the case of nazist, some of these radical muslims actually put these ideas into practice.
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Alexander____ »

Dogmatic wrote:80% of them support sharia law, similar percentages support death for those who leave their religion, etc.

Polls show that the vast majority of muslims support ISIS
Do you have any references to back these statistics up?
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Sam Vara
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Sam Vara »

Alexander____ wrote:
Dogmatic wrote:80% of them support sharia law, similar percentages support death for those who leave their religion, etc.

Polls show that the vast majority of muslims support ISIS
Do you have any references to back these statistics up?
In the UK, the last major survey found that less than a quarter of British Muslims supported, under certain circumstances, the replacement of current laws with Sharia laws. About 100,000 UK Muslims sympathised with suicide bombers. There was a worrying reluctance to inform the police if relatives became involved with jihadists, but the number of actual supporters was very low. No data, as far as I know, on attitudes towards apostasy.
http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news ... ally-think

The equivalent figures for other European countries may well differ.
Dogmatic
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Dogmatic »

Here is a big research on the subject: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... the-world/

Support for sharia is around 80% in pretty much all muslism countries. I see it is less in the west

Results regarding support for ISIS may not be too accurate giving that most probably figure out it's a tricky question, as shown by this:
In some countries, considerable portions of the population do not offer an opinion about ISIS, including a majority (62%) of Pakistanis.
Here is a list of past polls showing incredible support for al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attack in all muslim countries: https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/page ... polls.aspx

When half of muslims world wide support al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attack, there is a little problem. It's not like they support some bad economic measures, oppose gay marriage or something of that sort. Answering "yes" to such a question says a little more about yourself.

If 50% of americans would support Hitler, support terrorist attacks done by some nazist organization existing today, 80% support a legal code based on the Old Testament, I am sure Lyndon Taylor would be going bananas.
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Macron PLUMMETS in the polls as Marine Le Pen enjoys boost a WEEK AWAY from election vote
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Political Science Professor Douglas Webber said: “It would be almost impossible for the EU to survive if Marine Le Pen should win the up-coming French Presidential elections, and subsequently win a referendum to withdraw France from it.”
Metta,
Paul. :)
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by ToVincent »

There Poṭṭhapāda was sitting with his crowd of wanderers, all shouting and making a great commotion, indulging in various kinds of unedifying conversation (lit: animal talks - tiracchāna-katha), such as about kings, robbers, ministers, armies, dangers, wars, food, drink, clothes, beds, garlands, perfumes, relatives, carriages, villages, towns and cities, countries, ...
DN9

"Animal talks", like this french flock above.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
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(And you just can't imagine how much goodness, those who desire evil, are ready to display - ToVincent).
chownah
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by chownah »

From the article:
The former Front National leader said: “I have been calling for the transformation of the single currency to the common currency for quite a long time
Can someone explain what single currency and common currency mean? It seems to me that they are the same thing so obviously I'm lost here.
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by binocular »

chownah wrote:From the article:
The former Front National leader said: “I have been calling for the transformation of the single currency to the common currency for quite a long time
Can someone explain what single currency and common currency mean? It seems to me that they are the same thing so obviously I'm lost here.
It seems to be referring to the difference between individual/national/single currencies (e.g. the French franc, the German mark, Austrian schilling etc.) and one common currency (ie. the euro).
However, the euro is also called "the single currency" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro).
There seems to be a bit of a mixup of terms.

As for Le Pen's currency policy:
The French far right Front National leader and presidential candidate explained on Sunday one of her more controversial policies within her presidential candidacy program, namely leaving the euro.

Marine le Pen proposed a dual currency system for France: a national currency for its home economy and another for international trade as, in her opinion, the "euro is dead."

"We will have a national currency like all other countries, and a common currency together," Le Pen said during an interview with French daily "Le Parisien," meaning that a new French Franc would be a currency for everyday domestic use and the euro, would be for "large companies trading internationally."
http://www.efe.com/efe/english/portada/ ... 60-3252967
The former Front National leader said: “I have been calling for the transformation of the single currency to the common currency for quite a long time
-- Maybe this is just an awkward translation.
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

Can you explain us how the polls show that Mr Macron "PLUMMETS"? Or is it yet another case of misinformation/misinformed opinion owing to excessive trust in poor quality sources that strengthen a preexisting bias?

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_de_ ... emier_tour
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