What century is there in France ?

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Dogmatic
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What century is there in France ?

Post by Dogmatic »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 98191.html

The communist party got 20%. First comment after the article:
The French equivalent to Cleggmania. Why does France need to move into this Century when the last one was so good. Perhaps they can start competing with Greece on youth unemployment and apply to the IMF for a bailout. A breath of stale air. Check the strike calendar before you next try to travel in France. Even on the TV coverage in France the experts had given up on any economic prospects.
And that is my feeling too after seeing the communist party at 20%. Can someone from France explain what is going on ? What century is there in France ?
pyluyten
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by pyluyten »

Hi, since i'm not on political studies or whatever, i cannot tell much, but be sure there are not 20% of french people who read karl marx. Instead, high scores from non conventional political parties do express something else ; these are common not only in France but other countries in Europe ; & not only in Europe but other countries in the world; so yes tomorrow might be stable as it might not... i guess it's time to come back to our topic & focus on "here & now" ;)
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by DNS »

Election results:

Macron (En Marche! party) 24% Centrist
Le Pen (National Front) 21.3% Right-wing, nationalist
Fillon (The Republicans) 19.6% Center-right
Melenchon (La France insoumise) 19.6% Left-wing

And remaining candidates with 6% or less of the vote. The La France insoumise party does not call itself 'communist' but they are considered left-wing. Only the top 2 move on to the final round of voting. It looks like Macron will win, since the parties that did not make the top 2 are left of center or all the way left-wing, so I imagine they would vote for Macron over Le Pen.
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cjmacie
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by cjmacie »

David N. Snyder wrote:Election results:

Macron (En Marche! party) 24% Centrist
Le Pen (National Front) 21.3% Right-wing, nationalist
Fillon (The Republicans) 19.6% Center-right
Melenchon (La France insoumise) 19.6% Left-wing

And remaining candidates with 6% or less of the vote. The La France insoumise party does not call itself 'communist' but they are considered left-wing. Only the top 2 move on to the final round of voting. It looks like Macron will win, since the parties that did not make the top 2 are left of center or all the way left-wing, so I imagine they would vote for Macron over Le Pen.
...unless Nigel Farage, the Russians, etc. pull it off... again...
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retrofuturist
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
cjmacie wrote:...unless Nigel Farage, the Russians, etc. pull it off... again...
Image

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

Dogmatic wrote:The communist party got 20%. First comment after the article:
The French equivalent to Cleggmania. Why does France need to move into this Century when the last one was so good. Perhaps they can start competing with Greece on youth unemployment and apply to the IMF for a bailout. A breath of stale air. Check the strike calendar before you next try to travel in France. Even on the TV coverage in France the experts had given up on any economic prospects.
And that is my feeling too after seeing the communist party at 20%. Can someone from France explain what is going on ? What century is there in France ?
So as noted, it is not the Communist party. I think Buddhists all over the country have massively supported this candidate because he had a lot of proposals that align perfectly with the values of Buddhism. He is presented as far-left and thus believed by people at large to be some kind of bloody minded communist (booooohhh :lol:) while he actually has the most humane and sense making proposals.

The favorite candidate is a banker who among many things has sold parts of a public company that had been held together with taxpayer money for years (and represented an important asset) to General Electrics. He vetoed a law that would force banks to separate banking activities between the financial casino and people's accounts, to guarantee users' safety in case of another financial bubble burst. And that's just only scratching the surface.

The question that should be asked is how such a person with next to no political experience and zero charisma is going to become the next president.
Hints:
1) Put his face on the cover of all newspapers and magazines in the country
2) Destroy his most "dangerous" political opponent with a cascade of revelations and swift paced lawsuits, sometimes over very petty issues (like where he got his suits from?)
3) Give a lot of media coverage to the "evil" party so that it comes second, to make sure people will vote at the second round out of fear and not because they believe in Macron

So while some may not appreciate the situation and be swift to judge with very partial and distorted information, there are ideas here that don't even dare to be spoken of for example in American politics:
Two years later, Mélenchon welcomed the comparison to Sanders. In an interview this month with Jacobin, Mélenchon’s spokesman Raquel Garrido said that his candidate, like Sanders, had escaped a tedious debate about left-wing politics by running as a populist.

“We want to win,” said Garrido. “I think we are similar to Bernie Sanders in that way, who rarely spoke about ‘the Left,’ but about the people against the 1 percent or the billionaire class.”

Mélenchon’s agenda, however, goes much further than Sanders. Part of that’s owed to the existing politics of France, where much of Sanders’s agenda — cheap college, national health care, generous child care — is already law. Mélenchon’s most attention-getting idea is an effective maximum income, a 100 percent tax on income over $427,000.

What Sanders and Mélenchon have in common is a narrative. In France, a popular meme has retold our 2016 presidential election in simple terms — voters rejected a left populist (Sanders), nominated a neoliberal (Clinton) and got a right-wing populist (Trump). In France, the Clinton role is assigned to Emmanuel Macron, a former Socialist government minister who spent most of his career as a banker; the Trump role goes to Marine Le Pen, who runs the racial nationalist party her father founded.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... =ss_fb-amp
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
cjmacie wrote:...unless Nigel Farage, the Russians, etc. pull it off... again...
Image
I think there is only one reason why she is getting much attention, and it's probably not what you think: increased media coverage. You demonize a party all over the media and at the same time give it more attention and coverage in those same media than any other opponent to the "chosen", main candidate (who gets about twice as much coverage)? What does that tell us? All the more when we know that nearly all media companies in France are ultimately owned by only 10 billionaires, among whom bankers, an arms manufacturer, and one who has stated on camera that he gets printed almost whatever he likes in the magazines he owns?

Actually, looking at the following chart that presents the time share of each candidate on TV, and assuming it is representative of the entire campaign (not easy to find this kind of data) you can see that:
1) Macron with 37% managed to pull off 23% of votes or so
2) Le Pen with about 20% coverage pulled off 20% of votes
3) Mélenchon, with a mere 7% tops managed to pull off nearly 20% of votes
Image
It is quite clear who the candidate that speaks most for the people is. Imagine if he had had 20 or even 37% coverage.
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cjmacie
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by cjmacie »

Buddha Vacana wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
cjmacie wrote:...unless Nigel Farage, the Russians, etc. pull it off... again...
[picture]
...Actually, looking at the following chart that presents the time share of each candidate on TV, and assuming it is representative of the entire campaign...
That data appears to cover a 1 week period two months ago. You don't think the proportions might not have changed closer in to the election?
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

Indeed as I have said,
assuming it is representative of the entire campaign
The time you seem to be referring to concerns only the last 2 weeks of the campaign. It used to be the last month but it has been shortened recently. What happens in the last two weeks has an impact but it is very doubtful as to whether it makes a real difference, as you seem to suggest. Campaigns are not run within two weeks. All the scandals that everybody agrees rattled and shaped up this campaign happened long before that last period started.
Those rules are just another example of pretending to do something while actually letting the exact opposite happen. Not unlike "democracy".
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cjmacie
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by cjmacie »

Buddha Vacana wrote:Indeed as I have said,
assuming it is representative of the entire campaign
The time you seem to be referring to concerns only the last 2 weeks of the campaign. It used to be the last month but it has been shortened recently. What happens in the last two weeks has an impact but it is very doubtful as to whether it makes a real difference, as you seem to suggest. Campaigns are not run within two weeks. All the scandals that everybody agrees rattled and shaped up this campaign happened long before that last period started.
Those rules are just another example of pretending to do something while actually letting the exact opposite happen. Not unlike "democracy".
More assumptions? :juggling:
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

Yeah. I know exactly why I am coming less and less around here.

I assumed you knew what you were talking about, of which I was in doubt, but I went for the most sympathetic assumption anyway.

Actually, by the time this data was collected, the primaries for the conservatives was already three months over, and those for the left were one month over. And, ironically, it was precisely during this time period that the major scandals of this campaign started. So it is absolutely safe to say the campaign was already in full swing by the time these data were collected.
Dogmatic
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Dogmatic »

who among many things has sold parts of a public company that had been held together with taxpayer money for years
Well thank god he seems to have a clue about how the economy functions. Don't you find it strange that the overwhelming majority of people who attended economy-related education are liberal when it comes to the economy ?
while he actually has the most humane and sense making proposals.
The communist had a lot of humane proposals too. The problem is, compassion alone is not enough, you also need wisdom. If there is a lot of blind compassion but little wisdom, then things will end up bad eventually. Those who have a lot of compassion but very little wisdom usually end up destroying the very causes they were trying to help. The most common example is compassionate people trying to help out the poor by voting far-left policies, then end up in poverty or at least economic stagnation (in moderate cases) or end up in famine (more extreme cases, such as the communist).
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by lyndon taylor »

David N. Snyder wrote:Election results:

Macron (En Marche! party) 24% Centrist
Le Pen (National Front) 21.3% Right-wing, nationalist
Fillon (The Republicans) 19.6% Center-right
Melenchon (La France insoumise) 19.6% Left-wing

And remaining candidates with 6% or less of the vote. The La France insoumise party does not call itself 'communist' but they are considered left-wing. Only the top 2 move on to the final round of voting. It looks like Macron will win, since the parties that did not make the top 2 are left of center or all the way left-wing, so I imagine they would vote for Macron over Le Pen.
AH, you said the parties that did not make it are all left of centre, Fillon is "centre" right wing, not left wing.
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by Buddha Vacana »

Fillon is full swing right wing, his party is called after American politics "The Republicans". But he has urged his electors to vote for Macron who is expected to win with 65% or so.

He represents the centrist fascism closest to the Hillary Clinton brand (his name came up in the Podesta files, according to Julian Assange).

It seems he is still better than both Le Pen and Fillon but he is a total bs candidate who says everything and its contrary. With him, the oligarchy has put squarely one of their own at the steering wheel.
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Re: What century is there in France ?

Post by No_Mind »

Buddha Vacana wrote:Fillon is full swing right wing, his party is called after American politics "The Republicans". But he has urged his electors to vote for Macron who is expected to win with 65% or so.

He represents the centrist fascism closest to the Hillary Clinton brand (his name came up in the Podesta files, according to Julian Assange).

It seems he is still better than both Le Pen and Fillon but he is a total bs candidate who says everything and its contrary. With him, the oligarchy has put squarely one of their own at the steering wheel.
I do not have any practical idea of run-off elections .. if Fillon and Melenchon endorses Macron and Macron wins .. will Fillon and Melenchon have any power?

What is real effect of endorsement in second round run-off?

And .. which way will Dupont-Aignan's 5% go?

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
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