A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

If you wish to raise new topics on News, Current Events & Politics, please do so at Dhamma Wheel Engaged.
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

clw_uk wrote:However, lets assume that there are IQ differences between the races.
Even if differences in average IQ between races were true, it could be due to economic and social inequality, especially inequality in education. Stephen Jay Gould already debunked racialist theories about IQ in The Mismeasure of Man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 12191
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Ceisiwr »

Even if differences in average IQ between races were true, it could be due to economic and social inequality, especially inequality in education. Stephen Jay Gould already debunked racialist theories about IQ in The Mismeasure of Man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

My post was on the assumption that it's genetic
“When serenity is developed, what purpose does it serve? The mind is developed. And when the mind is developed, what purpose does it serve? Lust is abandoned.”

“When insight is developed, what purpose does it serve? Wisdom is developed. And when wisdom is developed, what purpose does it serve? Ignorance is abandoned."


AN 2.31
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

Garrib wrote: Perhaps the tendency to claim superior status based on some shared group characteristic might be rooted in a feeling of personal inadequacy?
That's a really good point. Stefan has always displayed narcissistic tendencies, such as claiming to be the most important philosopher of our time.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

clw_uk wrote:
Even if differences in average IQ between races were true, it could be due to economic and social inequality, especially inequality in education. Stephen Jay Gould already debunked racialist theories about IQ in The Mismeasure of Man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

My post was on the assumption that it's genetic
It's an assumption that's already been debunked.
Santi253 wrote:Stephen Jay Gould already debunked racialist theories about IQ in The Mismeasure of Man:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 12191
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Ceisiwr »

I'm not interested in arguing about the validity of racial IQ differences with you and if they are caused by genetic or environmental factors (although both seem likely as IQ is influenced by both our genetics and environment in terms of nutrition etc). What I said was if racial IQ differences were real then that still isn't a basis for racism or racist behaviour, since within groups individuals vary (as well as being bad practice to hate someone for having a low IQ anyway)
“When serenity is developed, what purpose does it serve? The mind is developed. And when the mind is developed, what purpose does it serve? Lust is abandoned.”

“When insight is developed, what purpose does it serve? Wisdom is developed. And when wisdom is developed, what purpose does it serve? Ignorance is abandoned."


AN 2.31
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 12191
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Ceisiwr »

As for Stefan, I've never been a fan.
“When serenity is developed, what purpose does it serve? The mind is developed. And when the mind is developed, what purpose does it serve? Lust is abandoned.”

“When insight is developed, what purpose does it serve? Wisdom is developed. And when wisdom is developed, what purpose does it serve? Ignorance is abandoned."


AN 2.31
Garrib
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Garrib »

Many people in education insist that IQ, while a useful metric in some circumstances, is not a totally valid way of measuring intelligence - in particular, there may be cultural and linguistic biases in the IQ assessment.

And I agree with the above poster who says that even if there were real IQ discrepancies between ethnic groups, that wouldn't be a good support for racist beliefs or practices. And I would hazard a guess that those who most vociferously voice and expound racist viewpoints have an average IQ below that of their "race."
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

I just sent Ben Shapiro an email, asking why his website, The Daily Wire, is promoting videos by Stefan Molyneux, a white supremacist.

Ben Shapiro is Jewish and claims to be against white supremacy, so I believe he should be accountable for things posted on his website, even if posted by his employees rather than himself.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 12191
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Ceisiwr »

Santi253 wrote:I just sent Ben Shapiro an email, asking why his website, The Daily Wire, is promoting videos by Stefan Molyneux, a white supremacist.

Ben Shapiro is Jewish and claims to be against white supremacy, so I believe he should be accountable for things posted on his website, even if posted by his employees rather than himself.

Let us know if he replies
“When serenity is developed, what purpose does it serve? The mind is developed. And when the mind is developed, what purpose does it serve? Lust is abandoned.”

“When insight is developed, what purpose does it serve? Wisdom is developed. And when wisdom is developed, what purpose does it serve? Ignorance is abandoned."


AN 2.31
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

clw_uk wrote:
Santi253 wrote:I just sent Ben Shapiro an email, asking why his website, The Daily Wire, is promoting videos by Stefan Molyneux, a white supremacist.

Ben Shapiro is Jewish and claims to be against white supremacy, so I believe he should be accountable for things posted on his website, even if posted by his employees rather than himself.

Let us know if he replies
Please keep in mind that I have nothing against Ben Shapiro, even though our political views are very different. I appreciate that he's been one of the few voices on the right speaking out against Trump. He's taken a lot of hate because of it.

At the same time, Ben Shapiro's been friends or worked with with Bill Whittle, a white supremacist:
https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2017/ ... ist/216174

Bill Whittle might no longer be working for the Daily Wire.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
perkele
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by perkele »

Santi253, just curious: What is, by your definition, a white supremacist?
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

perkele wrote:Santi253, just curious: What is, by your definition, a white supremacist?
White supremacy is a term used to characterize various belief systems central to which are one or more of the following key tenets: 1) whites should have dominance over people of other backgrounds, especially where they may co-exist; 2) whites should live by themselves in a whites-only society; 3) white people have their own "culture" that is superior to other cultures; 4) white people are genetically superior to other people. As a full-fledged ideology, white supremacy is far more encompassing than simple racism or bigotry. Most white supremacists today further believe that the white race is in danger of extinction due to a rising “flood” of non-whites, who are controlled and manipulated by Jews, and that imminent action is need to “save” the white race.
https://www.adl.org/education/resources ... -supremacy
White supremacist is not a term I use lightly. I never call someone a white supremacist without evidence of their views.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
perkele
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by perkele »

Santi253 wrote:White supremacist is not a term I use lightly. I never call someone a white supremacist without evidence of their views.
So, I ask again: What is, by your definition, a white supremacist?
Santi253
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 4:37 am
Contact:

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

perkele wrote:
Santi253 wrote:White supremacist is not a term I use lightly. I never call someone a white supremacist without evidence of their views.
So, I ask again: What is, by your definition, a white supremacist?
Santi253 wrote:White supremacy is a term used to characterize various belief systems central to which are one or more of the following key tenets: 1) whites should have dominance over people of other backgrounds, especially where they may co-exist; 2) whites should live by themselves in a whites-only society; 3) white people have their own "culture" that is superior to other cultures; 4) white people are genetically superior to other people. As a full-fledged ideology, white supremacy is far more encompassing than simple racism or bigotry. Most white supremacists today further believe that the white race is in danger of extinction due to a rising “flood” of non-whites, who are controlled and manipulated by Jews, and that imminent action is need to “save” the white race.
https://www.adl.org/education/resources ... -supremacy
The definition of white supremacist is pretty cut and dried, unless one happens to be a white supremacist.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com
perkele
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:37 pm

Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by perkele »

Since my last reply was deleted, let me rephrase it:
Santi253 wrote:The definition of white supremacist is pretty cut and dried, unless one happens to be a white supremacist.
And yet you have still not bothered to provide a clear definition of the term.
So my conclusion is that you must be a white supremacist.

Seriously, that thing that you quoted now twice is not a "cut and dry" definition by any means. It is ambiguous and ill-defined as it can get.

Apply it as a mindless slur for badmouthing as you see fit, and anyone who cannot get it is a white supremacist. How very convenient.
Santifm253 wrote:White supremacist is not a term I use lightly.
Judging from all I've read from you, it sure is.
Locked