A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

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Santi253
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A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience
http://tracinskiletter.com/2016/10/02/a ... doscience/

This is a very detailed article on Stefan Molyneux's descent into racism and Trumpism. I was a fan of Molyneux, back when he was an anarcho-capitalist who eschewed involvement in electoral politics. He's the guy who told kids to disown their parents if their parents didn't support atheism and anarchism.

For the last two years, however, Stefan has shifted to extremely right-wing racialist politics, and has been one of the main apologists for Donald Trump on the internet, who he sees as a kindred spirit. In fact, many Trump supporters in the alt-right today were originally libertarian-leaning Ron Paul supporters:
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/09/how-the ... -ron-paul/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... bc5fa4947f

Stefan once opposed tribalism in all forms, and now his Youtube channel is almost exclusively focused on white tribalism, blaming minorities for almost everything related to a perceived decay of Western and American civilization. Stefan even supports Christianity now, as long as it can be used as a tool to promote white supremacy.

The sickest part of Stefan's Youtube channel is perhaps when more mainstream conservatives appear on his show, including black conservatives, and little to no mention is made of his racist views. It's as if they've either never watched his other videos or they tacitly accept the need to not upset the racists among their own supporters/listeners.
Last edited by Santi253 on Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sam Vara
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Sam Vara »

Santi253 wrote: He's the guy who told kids to disown their parents if their parents didn't support atheism and anarchism.
That doesn't sound like a good start, so I'm not surprised to hear that he has gone from bad to worse.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by DooDoot »

Santi253 wrote:This is a very detailed article on Stefan Molyneux's descent into racism...
Lots of well-intentioned people on You Tube get lost in race politics, which is both dangerous & untrue. There is no such thing as 'race culture', such as 'white culture' or 'black culture'. In the past, when societies had common unifying cultures, these were based on religion or some social value rather than race. Within races there has been exploitation of the same race, which shows race politics is untrue.

Similarly, there are women who abuse/exploit women; refugees who abuse/exploit refugees; LGBT who abuse/exploit LGBT. This show minority politics, similar to race politics, is untrue.
and Trumpism.
Trump is New York business Jewish establishment. He ain't a Nazi. Are you still being conned or duped by the racial campaign Trump used to gain votes?
I was a fan of Molyneux, back when he was an anarcho-capitalist...
Stefan gives some excellent history videos but I've never been drawn to his social & political commentary. His ideas are not Buddhist because he is too-individualistic and does not focus enough of the interconnectedness of society, which Buddhism emphasises. As a Buddhist, I try to judge or assess these matters from a Buddhist perspective.
For the last two years, however, Stefan has shifted to extremely right-wing racialist politics...
White people feel under threat in many places, particularly because of the economic situation. If a person is a Buddhist, they should have empathy & compassion towards the fears of many white people. This said, these fears are unrelated to race because its is white people, such as Reagan, Thatcher, Clinton, Trump, etc, who have brought the bad times onto these white people who feel disempowered & disenfranchised. White people who feel disenfranchised should focus on the white people who put them in this situation.
Stefan once opposed tribalism in all forms, and now his Youtube channel is almost exclusively focused on white tribalism, blaming minorities for almost everything related to a perceived decay of Western and American civilization.
To me, the minority politics you push is also tribalism. In fact, in the USA, the origin of minority politics is Jewish tribalism. Minority politics is simply a method for minorities to gain political power over the majority, where they accuse the majority of being 'racist', 'antisemitic', 'Nazi', 'homophobic', 'misogynist', etc. This is not different to race politics.
Stefan once opposed tribalism in all forms
Maybe Stefan did. But, to me, your posts here are also tribalism. As i said, to me, the minority politics you push is definitely tribalism. Small tribe vs large tribe. Personally, I have no little sympathy for your agenda because it seems very anarchic to me. Nations do need to share some kind of common culture at their core to be sustainable. Even the suttas report the Buddha taught this.
and now his Youtube channel is almost exclusively focused on white tribalism, blaming minorities for almost everything related to a perceived decay of Western and American civilization. Stefan even supports Christianity now, as long as it can be used as a tool to promote white supremacy.

I also gain this impression from Stefan but I never respected his political views anyway. He is wrong here. At least we can agree here. Supporting something like Christianity is OK, particularly if it is real Christianity (rather than imperialist war-mongering Christianity). But race politics is wrong. He should know better. From race politics, the upper class of a race sends the lower class of the same race into war to be slaughtered. Race does not care about each other, except Jewish people. But Jewish people are not a race. That is why they historically look after each other; because they share the same culture or values. If people can share real Christian, real Buddhist values or real Muslim values, based in respect, gratitude & morality, they can create a harmonious society. But a society without morality is not sustainable, regardless of the amount of 'tolerance'. 'Tolerance without morality (sila)', just as freedom without responsibility, leads to nowhere, except to anarchy & decay.
The sickest part of Stefan's Youtube channel is perhaps when more mainstream conservatives appear on his show, including black conservatives, and little to no mention is made of his racist views. It's as if they've either never watched his other videos or they tacitly accept the need to not upset the racists among their own supporters/listeners.
From a Buddhist perspective, your posts seem to represent the 'left' side of extremism. They seem to lack a vision of interconnetedness & gratitude. For example, while black people were forced to live in the USA and the indigenous people were treated very cruelly, the other people in the USA came to the USA voluntarily. It was white people that built the economic plentiful land of the USA, which poor minorities, such as Jews from Poland & Russia and Hispanics from Mexico, could immigrate to & take refuge in. Therefore, minorities should be grateful towards white people rather than be against white people. This is also the Buddhist way.

Thanks for your posts. They help me clarifying my thinking about these matters. The more I read American left wing minority identity politics on Buddhist chatsites, the more I can discern how non-Buddhist left-wing politics is, at least to me. Thankfully, the Buddha taught the Middle-Way rather than tribalism & identitarianism. :)
Conditions of a Nation's Welfare

4. At that time the Venerable Ananda was standing behind the Blessed One, fanning him, and the Blessed One addressed the Venerable Ananda thus: "What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis have frequent gatherings, and are their meetings well attended?"

"I have heard, Lord, that this is so."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis assemble and disperse peacefully and attend to their affairs in concord?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they do."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis neither enact new decrees nor abolish existing ones, but proceed in accordance with their ancient constitutions?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they do."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis show respect, honor, esteem, and veneration towards their elders and think it worthwhile to listen to them?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they do."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis refrain from abducting women and maidens of good families and from detaining them?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they refrain from doing so."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis show respect, honor, esteem, and veneration towards their shrines, both those within the city and those outside it, and do not deprive them of the due offerings as given and made to them formerly?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they do venerate their shrines, and that they do not deprive them of their offerings."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis duly protect and guard the arahats, so that those who have not come to the realm yet might do so, and those who have already come might live there in peace?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they do."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline."

5. And the Blessed One addressed the brahman Vassakara in these words: "Once, brahman, I dwelt at Vesali, at the Sarandada shrine, and there it was that I taught the Vajjis these seven conditions leading to (a nation's) welfare. So long, brahman, as these endure among the Vajjis, and the Vajjis are known for it, their growth is to be expected, not their decline."

Thereupon the brahman Vassakara spoke thus to the Blessed One: "If the Vajjis, Venerable Gotama, were endowed with only one or another of these conditions leading to welfare, their growth would have to be expected, not their decline. What then of all the seven? No harm, indeed, can be done to the Vajjis in battle by Magadha's king, Ajatasattu, except through treachery or discord. Well, then, Venerable Gotama, we will take our leave, for we have much to perform, much work to do."

"Do as now seems fit to you, brahman." And the brahman Vassakara, the chief minister of Magadha, approving of the Blessed One's words and delighted by them, rose from his seat and departed.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by pulga »

DooDoot wrote:Thankfully, the Buddha taught the Middle-Way rather than tribalism & identitarianism. :)
Conditions of a Nation's Welfare....
This reads almost like one of Donald Trump's speeches.
"Dhammā=Ideas. This is the clue to much of the Buddha's teaching." ~ Ven. Ñanavira, Commonplace Book
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

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DooDoot, I think you would do well to separate your views from the teachings of the Buddha.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

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DooDoot wrote: They help me clarifying my thinking about these matters.
There is nothing clear about your thinking if it supports racism and right-wing extremism, which your response to the OP suggests.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

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Sam Vara wrote:
Santi253 wrote: He's the guy who told kids to disown their parents if their parents didn't support atheism and anarchism.
That doesn't sound like a good start, so I'm not surprised to hear that he has gone from bad to worse.
Stefan's wife is also a mental health therapist, and they got into trouble for urging her clients to "defoo" their parents. This is all public information.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

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Santi253 wrote:
Stefan's wife is also a mental health therapist, and they got into trouble for urging her clients to "defoo" their parents. This is all public information.
Thanks. I'll steer clear of both of them, unless I feel like rejecting my parents or indulging in a little race hatred.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by DNS »

Molyneux wrote:Molyneux ranks the races in the same hierarchy provided by the Pioneer Fund. As Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average IQ test scores, Molyneux places them at the top. Second-place are East Asians—Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. In the middle are non-Hispanic whites and Sephardic Jews.
Molyneux places Ashkenazi Jews at the top as the most intelligent; not too surprisingly he's also Ashkenazi background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
(although he doesn't follow Judaism)

Jews hold many higher positions, imo, because of the culture which pushes higher education and worldly success. All humans are pretty well mixed up since the great migration out of Africa some 85,000 years ago. Long before that there were several different human species, Homo Habilis, Neanderthals, Denisovans, etc. but now there is only one; Homo Sapiens sapiens and the differences between races, ethnicities are negligible.

Just look at my own race-ethnicity of Ashkenazi Jew; why are we all so white looking? It's because our ancestors mixed with the Europeans so much. A pure Jew if there could even be one would look more like an Arab or Persian, with darker skin tone, more like a Samaritan or Jordanian.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Buddha Vacana »

Sam Vara wrote:
Santi253 wrote:
Stefan's wife is also a mental health therapist, and they got into trouble for urging her clients to "defoo" their parents. This is all public information.
Thanks. I'll steer clear of both of them, unless I feel like rejecting my parents or indulging in a little race hatred.
:tongue:

I have tried to watch a few of his videos. I never could endure that kind of lack of wisdom for very long
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Bundokji »

David N. Snyder wrote:
Molyneux wrote:Molyneux ranks the races in the same hierarchy provided by the Pioneer Fund. As Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average IQ test scores, Molyneux places them at the top. Second-place are East Asians—Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. In the middle are non-Hispanic whites and Sephardic Jews.
Molyneux places Ashkenazi Jews at the top as the most intelligent; not too surprisingly he's also Ashkenazi background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
(although he doesn't follow Judaism)

Jews hold many higher positions, imo, because of the culture which pushes higher education and worldly success. All humans are pretty well mixed up since the great migration out of Africa some 85,000 years ago. Long before that there were several different human species, Homo Habilis, Neanderthals, Denisovans, etc. but now there is only one; Homo Sapiens sapiens and the differences between races, ethnicities are negligible.

Just look at my own race-ethnicity of Ashkenazi Jew; why are we all so white looking? It's because our ancestors mixed with the Europeans so much. A pure Jew if there could even be one would look more like an Arab or Persian, with darker skin tone, more like a Samaritan or Jordanian.
There are many studies suggest that Ashkenazi Jews have higher IQ and that they are genetically related and they are at increased risk to certain genetic diseases. Their contribution to humanity is disproportionate considering their small number.

Of course culture plays a role, but ultimately the division between culture and genetics is superficial in my opinion. For example, intermarriage is a part of culture but affects genetics. Also if you belong to a culture that values higher education and worldly success, you will most likely not be able to get married (and pass on your genes) unless you are highly educated and successful, so its a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The hardship and suffering they were exposed to also played a role. To be almost universally hated and continue to survive takes a lot of intelligence.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

David N. Snyder wrote:
Molyneux wrote:Molyneux ranks the races in the same hierarchy provided by the Pioneer Fund. As Ashkenazi Jews have the highest average IQ test scores, Molyneux places them at the top. Second-place are East Asians—Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. In the middle are non-Hispanic whites and Sephardic Jews.
Molyneux places Ashkenazi Jews at the top as the most intelligent; not too surprisingly he's also Ashkenazi background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux
(although he doesn't follow Judaism)
Because of how many white supremacists are now in his audience, Stefan now denies having Jewish ancestry. He even once claimed that his mother had to hide from the Nazis. Now, if you look at his Twitter page, his hardcore fans post photoshopped images of Nazis with his face on them, and he doesn't seem to care. This is ironic, considering that Stefan has featured a Jewish conservative like Peter Schiff on his show.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by Santi253 »

Buddha Vacana wrote:
Sam Vara wrote:
Santi253 wrote:
Stefan's wife is also a mental health therapist, and they got into trouble for urging her clients to "defoo" their parents. This is all public information.
Thanks. I'll steer clear of both of them, unless I feel like rejecting my parents or indulging in a little race hatred.
:tongue:

I have tried to watch a few of his videos. I never could endure that kind of lack of wisdom for very long
Most of his videos are literally over an hour long.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

Post by DooDoot »

pulga wrote:This reads almost like one of Donald Trump's speeches.
Since Trump has lied or changed his mind on so many of his past & present views, I doubt Trump can sound like one of Buddha's speeches.
Santi253 wrote:There is nothing clear about your thinking if it supports racism and right-wing extremism, which your response to the OP suggests.
Sorry. This name-calling is unrelated to Buddhism. Buddhism examines cause & conditions and has consideration for the suffering of all beings. This brand new video that just popped into my inbox might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umqLQlqO6AM&t=1088s
Mr Man wrote:DooDoot, I think you would do well to separate your views from the teachings of the Buddha.
Supporting this statement with evidence may be useful. I am happy to have a discussion based on suttas.
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Re: A Libertarian Icon’s Descent Into Racist Pseudoscience

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DooDoot wrote:
Mr Man wrote:DooDoot, I think you would do well to separate your views from the teachings of the Buddha.
Supporting this statement with evidence may be useful. I am happy to have a discussion based on suttas.
DooDoot, the evidence is in your post. It is obvious if you chose to look.

But for example you wrote
From a Buddhist perspective, your posts seem to represent the 'left' side of extremism.

This is not a "Buddhist perspective". It is your view.

Is this your first ID on this forum DooDoot? If it is not would that constitute deception?
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