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Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:38 pm
by Leeuwenhoek2
Relevant to this conversation, especially pace Bundokji's post:
A review of social science work on political tolerance/intolerance especially on university campus
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=28785&p=475265#p475265

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For those that want to dig deeper consider this summary of:
Henry, P.J. & Napier, J.L. (2017). Education is related to greater ideological prejudice. Public Opinion Quarterly, 81, 930-942.
https://heterodoxacademy.org/research-s ... prejudice/
Everyone knows that education makes people more tolerant, right? Well, yes, if you focus on the traditional targets of intolerance that are generally studied in the social sciences, such as members of ethnic, racial, or religious outgroups. A college education seems to make people more cosmopolitan and less prejudiced. But what if you look at tolerance of ideological outgroups? New research by P.J. Henry and Jaime Napier finds that the education effect reverses. College graduates on both sides of the political spectrum are less tolerant of their political opponents than are people who have less education. In this post I summarize that article and draw out its implications for the current debate about free speech and the intellectual climate on college campuses.

Abstract: Decades of research have shown that education reduces individuals’ prejudices toward people who belong to different groups, but this research has focused predominantly on prejudice toward ethnic/racial groups, immigrant groups, and general nonconformists. However, it is not clear whether education reduces other prejudices against groups along different dimensions, including ideological identification. An analysis of American National Election Studies data from 1964 to 2012 shows that education is related to decreases in interethnic/interracial prejudice, but also to increases in ideological (liberal vs. conservative) prejudice. This finding could not be explained simply by the greater polarization of the American electorate in the past twenty years. The results require rethinking how and why education is associated with reduced prejudice for certain groups but not others

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:31 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings CJ,
cjmacie wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:04 am And just where is the "Dharmic perspective" in this sort of (typical and incessant) bear-baiting?
It seems you have misunderstood the intent of the post, either mine or Tucker's. He is lamenting the increased prevalence in race-baiting. I share with him the hope it will end sooner rather than later, a hope rooted in compassion.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:42 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings,
Pseudobabble wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:36 pm
Circle5 wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:24 pm
When racial division is the subtext of everything...
Since it become obvious that this could be used in politics with great success.
:goodpost:

Once people realised being perceived as disadvantaged constituted some kind of moral trump card which rendered any opposition ethically unnacceptable.
And if a party could cultivate the public perception for long enough that they have a monopoly on compassion, and claim that they'll fight for the disadvantaged (despite doing nothing constructive when the opportunity arises, since to solve the problem would remove any "disadvantage" - either perceived and/or real), then promote uncontrolled and illegal immigration and claim Voter ID is racist, they'd suddenly have a golden ticket to power for generations to come. And if there isn't enough actual racism going around to substantiate the perceptions and keep their cynical gravy train rolling, they could always insert race as a subtext to all things - thereby consolidating their political power at the expense of healthy race relations.

Ditto with religion, gender, sexuality and so on.

Welcome to sick world of identity politics.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pm
by Idappaccayata
retrofuturist wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:42 pm Greetings,
Pseudobabble wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:36 pm
Circle5 wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:24 pm
Since it become obvious that this could be used in politics with great success.
:goodpost:

Once people realised being perceived as disadvantaged constituted some kind of moral trump card which rendered any opposition ethically unnacceptable.
And if a party could cultivate the public perception for long enough that they have a monopoly on compassion, and claim that they'll fight for the disadvantaged (despite doing nothing constructive when the opportunity arises, since to solve the problem would remove any "disadvantage" - either perceived and/or real), then promote uncontrolled and illegal immigration and claim Voter ID is racist, they'd suddenly have a golden ticket to power for generations to come. And if there isn't enough actual racism going around to substantiate the perceptions and keep their cynical gravy train rolling, they could always insert race as a subtext to all things - thereby consolidating their political power at the expense of healthy race relations.

Ditto with religion, gender, sexuality and so on.

Welcome to sick world of identity politics.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I would argue that you are engaging in identity politics by buying into a vague conspiracy theory that the left (I'd assume this is who you're referencing), is somehow plotting to keep racism alive so they can stay in power (they aren't in power). Identifying with any political party and accusing the other of being entirely malevolent is just as divisive and dangerous as actual racism in the scheme of things.

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:30 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings,
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pm I would argue that you are engaging in identity politics
Only so far as identifying and rebuking it. True, I guess I could ignore it, or banish it to another forum...
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pm plotting to keep racism alive so they can stay in power (they aren't in power).
Thank god. The question is though, once it fails, where to from there? It's a difficult path for them to pivot from. Can they re-generate themselves in a new and positive manner, or will they cling to the same old tropes? Perhaps their followers can demand a new vision, or will the desire to stay visually aligned to "Team Compassion" see them aimlessly wandering towards a precipice like lemmings. It's one of the big, open, unanswered questions of the 21st century, and I have hope it will be answered well.
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pmIdentifying with any political party and accusing the other of being entirely malevolent is just as divisive and dangerous as actual racism in the scheme of things.
If you are speaking of the public followers of these political parties, I agree... they've been dudded by self-serving, virtue-signalling politicians on both sides of the aisle for a long time.

Beyond that, the public records of public officials and notable advocates and spokespeople for major parties speak for themselves.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:49 pm
by Idappaccayata
retrofuturist wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:30 pm Greetings,
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pm I would argue that you are engaging in identity politics
Only so far as identifying and rebuking it. True, I guess I could ignore it, or banish it to another forum...
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pm plotting to keep racism alive so they can stay in power (they aren't in power).
Thank god. The question is though, once it fails, where to from there? It's a difficult path for them to pivot from. Can they re-generate themselves in a new and positive manner, or will they cling to the same old tropes? Perhaps their followers can demand a new vision, or will the desire to stay visually aligned to "Team Compassion" see them aimlessly wandering towards a precipice like lemmings. It's one of the big, open, unanswered questions of the 21st century, and I have hope it will be answered well.
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:09 pmIdentifying with any political party and accusing the other of being entirely malevolent is just as divisive and dangerous as actual racism in the scheme of things.
If you are speaking of the public followers of these political parties, I agree... they've been dudded by self-serving, virtue-signalling politicians on both sides of the aisle for a long time.

Beyond that, the public records of public officials and notable advocates and spokespeople for major parties speak for themselves.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I agree. However, I think all sides of the political spectrum are going to need either dramatically evolve, or (hopefully) be replaced if we are going to continue to progress as a society. In my opinion, both parties are in agreement on the biggest decisions in our society, they just pretend to care about social issues so they can get the individual members of both teams riled up.

For example, the virtue signaling left, who claimed they Trump was a maniac that they would resist at all costs, just agreed to give him the biggest military budget in the history of the world. That's not something you do if you truly believe someone to be an evil psychopath. :shrug:

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:20 pm
by retrofuturist
Greetings Idappaccayata,
Idappaccayata wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:49 pm I agree. However, I think all sides of the political spectrum are going to need either dramatically evolve, or (hopefully) be replaced if we are going to continue to progress as a society.
I agree, and I think it's already in progress - certainly amongst conservatives in the U.S. with them voting for an anti-establishment president. It's unfortunate that liberals did not get the same opportunity to do so in 2016 after their supposedly anti-establishment candidate was unable to neuter the unfair sabotage perpetrated by the DNC and their (now largely former) stooges in the Intelligence community and the DOJ. Watch this space...

The upshot of it all is that hopefully identity politics is in a death spiral (which IMO started in 2015, when we hit peak SJW) and that this is merely the panicked last gasp of those media talking heads and political elites who were on the identity bandwagon. I guess that since they still have some (albeit declining) social capital, it's unsurprising that they'd deploy it now, in order to try maintaining some relevancy and a degree of cultural control & influence in a world that increasingly abhors, and is waking up to their self-serving drama. The prospect of people being at peace and no longer being divided terrifies them... as it would leave them and their shtick totally redundant.

And with that, I think I've answered Tucker's questions. :D

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: When racial division is the subtext of everything...

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:13 am
by Kim OHara
retrofuturist wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:20 pm ...
The upshot of it all is that hopefully identity politics is in a death spiral (which IMO started in 2015, when we hit peak SJW) and that this is merely the panicked last gasp of those media talking heads and political elites who were on the identity bandwagon. I guess that since they still have some (albeit declining) social capital, it's unsurprising that they'd deploy it now, in order to try maintaining some relevancy and a degree of cultural control & influence in a world that increasingly abhors, and is waking up to their self-serving drama. The prospect of people being at peace and no longer being divided terrifies them... as it would leave them and their shtick totally redundant.

And with that, I think I've answered Tucker's questions. :D

Metta,
Paul. :)
...
And it's a pretty good answer, too.

:namaste:
Kim