Buddha's wife (wives)?

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DNS
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Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by DNS »

Over at DWM, this was posted by Malcolm:
Malcolm wrote:Gopa was the principle wife, Yaśodharā was the mother of Rahula, and Mrigajā was the third wife. There are other sūtras that mention six wives.

The point of this exercise of course is to dispel the notion that the Buddha advocated the "traditional family" based on Western monogamous values.
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... a&start=20
I don't recall reading that in the Pali Canon. Is that just a Mahayana teaching? Isn't it only Yasodharà mentioned as the only wife in the Pali Canon?
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Sam Vara »

DNS wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:02 pm Over at DWM, this was posted by Malcolm:
Malcolm wrote:Gopa was the principle wife, Yaśodharā was the mother of Rahula, and Mrigajā was the third wife. There are other sūtras that mention six wives.

The point of this exercise of course is to dispel the notion that the Buddha advocated the "traditional family" based on Western monogamous values.
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... a&start=20
I don't recall reading that in the Pali Canon. Is that just a Mahayana teaching? Isn't it only Yasodharà mentioned as the only wife in the Pali Canon?
I've just Googled those other names, and they only appear in Mahayana sources ( and Dharma Wheel!)

I've not seen them in the Pali suttas, and reference to other wives would kind of jump off the page!
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Caodemarte »

Not that this historical speculation has direct reference to teachings and practice, but Buddha’s wife and son only appear after Buddha is criticized for not having a son and wife (as being unmanly). The latter wives appear as Buddhism expands into areas where this is particularly important (similar to the way Buddha becomes a “prince” of the Shakya). Did any of them exist? It is difficult to say. What is more interesting is the cultural pressure to produce them or assume their existence at the time and the modern desire to see him as unmarried and childless. See “Did the Buddha Really Have a Wife and Son?” at https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/buddhas-family/.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by DNS »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:06 pm I've just Googled those other names, and they only appear in Mahayana sources ( and Dharma Wheel!)
I've not seen them in the Pali suttas, and reference to other wives would kind of jump off the page!
That's what I thought too. Thanks.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

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Caodemarte wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:34 pm Not that this historical speculation has direct reference to teachings and practice, but Buddha’s wife and son only appear after Buddha is criticized for not having a son and wife (as being unmanly). The latter wives appear as Buddhism expands into areas where this is particularly important (similar to the way Buddha becomes a “prince” of the Shakya). Did any of them exist? It is difficult to say. What is more interesting is the cultural pressure to produce them or assume their existence at the time and the modern desire to see him as unmarried and childless. See “Did the Buddha Really Have a Wife and Son?” at https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/buddhas-family/.
Sounds reasonable, given the various cultures Buddhism spread to.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by cappuccino »

Matthew Gindin wrote:The absence of a wife or child is striking. Without the claims of later tradition,
we would assume the Buddha had left home as an unmarried youth.
:buddha1:
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Caodemarte »

cappuccino wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:15 pm
Matthew Gindin wrote:The absence of a wife or child is striking. Without the claims of later tradition,
we would assume the Buddha had left home as an unmarried youth.
:buddha1:

Just as some people wanted the Buddha to have had a wife or wives and a son (and then assumed that he must have had) some people (including myself) want the Buddha not to have left his wife or wives and child and would like to assume he had none. Neither imposition of our culturally derived preferences will tell us what historically happened. They will tell us about ourselves, how our preferences shape our perceptions, and why we should take our beliefs lightly.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by DooDoot »

DNS wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:02 pm
Malcolm wrote:The point of this exercise of course is to dispel the notion that the Buddha advocated the "traditional family" based on Western monogamous values.
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... a&start=20
The suttas generally only refer to monogamous relationships as the marriage ideal; such as SN 4.55, AN 6.52 & DN 31.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by anthbrown84 »

I'm sorry to be rude here, but I'd take.what is written in the mahyana Sutras with a pinch of salt.

Look to the Pali Canon for your research and lessons because these other books came out later and often contradict what it says in The Suttas.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

It was common for Princes, Kings & royalty in Asia (& the West, for that matter) to have several or many consorts. So it does not seem impossible or even unlikely that the Prince who became Buddha had more than one.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by BlackMagic »

His father never wanted him to leave the palace to fulfill what a fortune teller read about his coming future due to the dream Siddhartha had about the white elephant "Pole star" is how it is/was interpreted.

Gautama later said when the constellations cease to be the dhamma/tradition would end... there is a rule that says not to tell fortunes; also notice he did not want women to become wandering menidancants/aesthetics following him. They already had their path and dhamma of the jhains... following the path he set out on as a male mendicant/aesthetic wouldn't have benefited them.

Those that kept following him in his spiritual journeys were a hindrance to his path or education... as a prince to inherit a kingdom how was he to learn how the homeless feel? How the mourners feel? How the sick and dying feel? If everyone come running oh you have a splinter... oh you're starving... noticing they blended in pretending to be people they weren't to give him alms and make it easy on him?

He left removed his hair donned the robe sent the horse back empty and ran away. Pulling the same "disappearing act" they were doing to him.

Egyptians used to do the same thing for coming of age lessons... here is thy rod do not come back with staff; if they did come back with a person from the palace they'd be beaten with it and cast into the slave pits to make bricks out of mud and straw for all the other servants and staff to dwell in. Go forth do all you can with that rod as your measure(your bowl) into the wilderness.

What are we learning? When the temple of mother and father collapse if they haven't already? How firm can you be? When the earth of Gautama Buddha would tremble on mere touch? Was it more parlor tricks to continue lessons from the Jhainist? All the women and servants that didn't leave chasing after him?

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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by SarathW »

I am not surprised if Gotama had a harem.
It was quite acceptable in Buddha's time.
Even in Sri Lanka, it was a custom (now it is not there openly) for a woman to marry all the males in one family.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by cappuccino »

SarathW wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:54 am I am not surprised if Gotama had a harem.
He probably did not care about sex.

:meditate:
Last edited by cappuccino on Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Ceisiwr »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:18 pm
SarathW wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:54 am I am not surprised if Gotama had a harem.
He probably did not care about sex.

:meditate:
I think it unlikely that when he was a teenager and a young man he didn’t think about sex, or that he never had sex.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:28 pm even more unlikely that he never had sex.
If he had sex, he saw it was impermanent, and dukkha.
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