Buddha's wife (wives)?

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coconut
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by coconut »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:30 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:28 pm even more unlikely that he never had sex.
If he had sex, he saw it was impermanent, and dukkha.

Obviously he had sex if he has a biological son..
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Ceisiwr »

coconut wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:15 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:30 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:28 pm even more unlikely that he never had sex.
If he had sex, he saw it was impermanent, and dukkha.

Obviously he had sex if he has a biological son..
Some consider that to be a later story. I’m not sure the suttas ever directly say as such.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
coconut
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by coconut »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:19 pm
coconut wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:15 pm
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:30 pm

If he had sex, he saw it was impermanent, and dukkha.

Obviously he had sex if he has a biological son..
Some consider that to be a later story. I’m not sure the suttas ever directly say as such.
Ekatorra Agama 17.1 - Anapanasati mentions it
All previous Tathāgatas and Perfectly Enlightened Ones, too, had this bhikṣu Rāhula [as their
son][19], and it was the bhikṣu Rāhula who was anxious that he should be called ‘son of the Buddha’ who himself, following the Buddha, reached the ultimate goal (dharma). – Amongst my disciples, the Exalted One went on saying to the bhikṣus, the foremost among those capable of observing the rules of training is the bhikṣu Rāhula[20].
https://suttacentral.net/ea17.1/en/pierquet

As well as Vinaya
Then the lady, Rāhula’s mother, spoke thus to the boy Rāhula: “This, Rāhula, is your father, go and ask him for your inheritance.”

Then the boy Rāhula approached the Lord; having approached, he stood in front of the Lord and said: “Pleasant is your shadow, recluse.” Then the Lord, rising up from his seat, departed. Then the boy Rāhula, following close behind the Lord, said: “Give me my inheritance, recluse, give me my inheritance, recluse.” Then the Lord addressed the venerable Sāriputta, saying: “Well then, do you, Sāriputta, let the boy Rāhula go forth.”
As well as the Ghandharan vinaya
In the Ikṣvāku clan, there was a king named Mahāsujāta. King Mahāsujāta had a son called Ikṣvāku. King Ikṣvāku had a son named *Urada. Urada had a son named *Gaura. Gaura had a son named Nirpura. Nirpura had a son named Siṃhahanu. Siṃhahanu had a son named Śuddhodana. Śuddhodana had a son called Bodhisattva, and Bodhisattva had a son named Rāhula.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Ceisiwr »

coconut wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:03 pm
...
The Vinaya does yes. I wasn’t sure about the parallels.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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cappuccino
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by cappuccino »

coconut wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:03 pm Bodhisattva had a son named Rāhula.
A son named fetter?


The story of leaving the palace is a myth.


He did not sneak away. He went forth…
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Sam Vara
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by Sam Vara »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:46 pm
coconut wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:03 pm Bodhisattva had a son named Rāhula.
A son named fetter?


The story of leaving the palace is a myth.
Interesting that the dictionary on SC doesn't list the word, except as a proper name - the Buddha's only son. So I don't know where else it is used in the sense of "fetter". But if the story of leaving the palace is mythical, then we'd want a nice symbolic name for the son, wouldn't we?
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by cappuccino »

Sam Vara wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:51 pm But if the story of leaving the palace is mythical, then we'd want a nice symbolic name for the son, wouldn't we?
:)
48vows
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by 48vows »

Over at DWM, this was posted by Malcolm:
Malcolm wrote:Gopa was the principle wife, Yaśodharā was the mother of Rahula, and Mrigajā was the third wife. There are other sūtras that mention six wives.
This could just be another one of Malcolms nonsense.

I could even ask him for a citation with one of my alt accounts, but that thread is too old to post in after the new rule (a rule made just for me)
48vows
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by 48vows »

The 佛本行集經 (T3n0190) describes a 'dimmly lite love chamber' that the prince had. Samuel Beal's translation says "thus did the prince pass his time with the beautiful woman of his harem, and recive every possible pleasure "

The Buddhacarita seems to suggest that Buddha and Yosdhara were a happy couple.
BDK's translation says that Yasodhara had "The beauty of the worthy consort and her attractive and fair disposition were as captivating as a celestial queen’s While dwelling together they were joyful night and day."

It does seem that sometimes Yasodhara is descibed as the 'chief consort' or similar titles, but it also seems that the Princed actually loved her.

The Mahavastu describes the prince gifting her a neckalce-

"And when the young prince saw Yaśodharā he kept his gaze fixed on her. He took off the costly necklace which he wore and which was worth a hundred-thousand pieces and gave it to Yaśodharā. With a smile she said, “Is this all that I am worth?” The young prince, laughing, took off from his finger, his finger-ring, which was worth a hundred-thousand pieces, and gave it to her. And when he had thus distributed the jewels among the maidens he went to the palace.

The king asked his ministers, “On which of the maidens did the young prince fix his gaze?” They replied, “Your majesty, it was on the Śākyan Mahānāma’s daughter, named Yaśodharā. It was on her that the eyes of the young prince fell.”

https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book ... 42131.html

Also, the 佛本行集經 describes a scene where Yasodhara had a nightmare about the prince leaving her and her son and that he stayed and essentailly had 'make up sex'.

About Gopa, it seems that some accounts give the name 'Gopa' as buddha's wife, but some scholars (such as Basanta Bidari) say that Gopa was just an alternate name for Yasodhara.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by 48vows »

48vows wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:22 am About Gopa, it seems that some accounts give the name 'Gopa' as buddha's wife, but some scholars (such as Basanta Bidari) say that Gopa was just an alternate name for Yasodhara.
I'll add to this that while alot of texts (like the Mahavastu) give his wife's name as Yasodhara - other texts (like the Lalitavistara) tell the exact same story of their meeting but gives the name as Gopa.
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by DooDoot »

Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:28 pm I think it unlikely that when he was a teenager and a young man he didn’t think about sex, or that he never had sex.
Not at all. The sutta indicate he was not interested in sex (AN 3.38). The fact the suttas (MN 36) say he entered jhana spontaneously as a child would support a mind lacking interest in sex (MN 14). The fact he had a child (MN 61; MN 62) before leaving home despite 12 years of prior marriage is another sign he was not interested in sex and probably made a deal with his parents to bear an heir in exchange for becoming a monk (MN 26). MN 26 says he left home witnessing his parents shed tears.
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:46 pm The story of leaving the palace is a myth. He did not sneak away. He went forth…
MN 26 says he went forth, with full knowledge & view of his parents.
So, at a later time, while still young, a black-haired young man endowed with the blessings of youth in the first stage of life — and while my parents, unwilling, were crying with tears streaming down their faces — I shaved off my hair & beard, put on the ochre robe and went forth from the home life into homelessness.
The accounts in the suttas offer the following hypothesis:

1. He had higher consciousness, entering jhana spontaneously as a child (MN 36).

2. He was not interested in sex (AN 3.38; MN 75).

3. He made a deal with his parents to bear an heir and, when doing so, left home (MN 26).
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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robertk
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by robertk »

In the Buddhavamsa it notes that there were 40,000 beautiful women with Yasodhara (also called Bhaddakacca, and sometimes Rahulamata) as the wife.
It seems the other 39,999 might have been concubines - as there were presented to the prince by the Sakiyans.
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/rahulamata
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:07 am
Ceisiwr wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:28 pm I think it unlikely that when he was a teenager and a young man he didn’t think about sex, or that he never had sex.
Not at all. The sutta indicate he was not interested in sex (AN 3.38). The fact the suttas (MN 36) say he entered jhana spontaneously as a child would support a mind lacking interest in sex (MN 14). The fact he had a child (MN 61; MN 62) before leaving home despite 12 years of prior marriage is another sign he was not interested in sex and probably made a deal with his parents to bear an heir in exchange for becoming a monk (MN 26). MN 26 says he left home witnessing his parents shed tears.
cappuccino wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:46 pm The story of leaving the palace is a myth. He did not sneak away. He went forth…
MN 26 says he went forth, with full knowledge & view of his parents.
So, at a later time, while still young, a black-haired young man endowed with the blessings of youth in the first stage of life — and while my parents, unwilling, were crying with tears streaming down their faces — I shaved off my hair & beard, put on the ochre robe and went forth from the home life into homelessness.
The accounts in the suttas offer the following hypothesis:

1. He had higher consciousness, entering jhana spontaneously as a child (MN 36).

2. He was not interested in sex (AN 3.38; MN 75).

3. He made a deal with his parents to bear an heir and, when doing so, left home (MN 26).
you still hold to wrong view that one enters jhana will not have sex... this shows u claiming one enters jhana once also can be anagami ...

there is a sutta where a monks enters jhana but left monkhood 6 times and have a child and family... only on 7th time or 8th time after meeting buddha he ordains for life..

I myself with hardship and occasionally experience bliss that has nothing to do with 5 sense yet I dont claim I am free from xxx.. only wisdom can save one from xx not jhana or anything

buddha had jhana when little boy but he was enjoying beautiful palace with lots of girls and married and have biological son.. in ancient India biological son is a must for kings to carry the generation..
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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DooDoot
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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by DooDoot »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:48 am you still hold to wrong view that one enters jhana will not have sex... this shows u claiming one enters jhana once also can be anagami ... I myself with hardship and occasionally experience bliss that has nothing to do with 5 sense yet I dont claim I am free from xxx..
try to practise the 5 precepts, including the 4th towards others and towards false claims

since you have shown you struggle to read english clearly, take care with accusing other falsely
"I myself, before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened bodhisatta, saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, but as long as I had not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, I did not claim that I could not be tempted by sensuality. But when I saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and I had attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, that was when I claimed that I could not be tempted by sensuality.

MN 14
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Buddha's wife (wives)?

Post by confusedlayman »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:20 pm
confusedlayman wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:48 am you still hold to wrong view that one enters jhana will not have sex... this shows u claiming one enters jhana once also can be anagami ... I myself with hardship and occasionally experience bliss that has nothing to do with 5 sense yet I dont claim I am free from xxx..
try to practise the 5 precepts, including the 4th towards others and towards false claims

since you have shown you struggle to read english clearly, take care with accusing other falsely
"I myself, before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened bodhisatta, saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, but as long as I had not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, I did not claim that I could not be tempted by sensuality. But when I saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and I had attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, that was when I claimed that I could not be tempted by sensuality.

MN 14
if one can't enter jhana at will, then he can be tempted.. that's all I can say
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
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