Celibacy and motivation

Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22410
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ionbuddy wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:03 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:58 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:29 pm By the way, how do prostitutes factor into this?
What do you mean?
Shouldn't it be obvious? A person can just pay for sex. The only real difference I see is the potential to have sex for free, otherwise it's not much different.
If you are practicing celibacy then that means no sexual activity at all, not just no relationships. That includes masturbation.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Ionbuddy
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:20 am

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by Ionbuddy »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:10 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:03 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:58 pm

What do you mean?
Shouldn't it be obvious? A person can just pay for sex. The only real difference I see is the potential to have sex for free, otherwise it's not much different.
If you are practicing celibacy then that means no sexual activity at all, not just no relationships. That includes masturbation.
That's not what I was addressing. I was addressing the idea of incels, which was mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.
I still have defilements.
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22410
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by Ceisiwr »

Ionbuddy wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:18 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:10 pm
Ionbuddy wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:03 pm

Shouldn't it be obvious? A person can just pay for sex. The only real difference I see is the potential to have sex for free, otherwise it's not much different.
If you are practicing celibacy then that means no sexual activity at all, not just no relationships. That includes masturbation.
That's not what I was addressing. I was addressing the idea of incels, which was mentioned in earlier posts on this thread.
Oh I see. Some can be rightly opposed to such a thing. Those who do buy it obviously won't be sexually celibate, but would still be an incel since they can't get sex without paying. It refers to sexual partners not wanting you in general.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by SteRo »

auto wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:18 pm
SteRo wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:53 pm Please note that I said " Find out with right insight whether it supports or obstructs ...". So my words are intended as encouragement for seeking insight, my words are not intended as encouragement for parroting doctrinal concepts. My words leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.

But as to "sensuality" and its connotation in English see here. Maybe I should have written "Enjoyment of sexuality isn't inherently bad or harmful."
Someone who has passion for the form likely doesn't find form to be an obstruction. Unless knowing that the form is not self you won't start train to get rid of the passion for something what is not your self.
Maybe you might want to seek insight instead of parroting doctrinal ideas?
Again: My words are intended as encouragement for seeking insight, my words are not intended as encouragement for parroting doctrinal concepts. My words leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
auto wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:18 pm Your notion is just temporal ease perspective ...
What are you talking about?
What notion do I have?
I have the notion that spheres of experience experiencing 'I am' experience unease and are seeking permanent ease. And I encourage these spheres of experience to investigate whether they experience enjoyment of sexuality as beneficial or as obstructive in terms of having permanent ease. That is my notion. And I leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
auto wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:18 pm but not beyond birth and death.
Oh dear ... religious extremism? I can't say anything against permanent ease while alive. I think that who permanently is at ease won't do any harm.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 12032
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by DooDoot »

SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am My words are intended as encouragement for seeking insight
The suttas say one stuck in the mud cannot pull another out of the mud. Try to stick to discussions of doctrine.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by SteRo »

DooDoot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:24 am
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am My words are intended as encouragement for seeking insight
The suttas say one stuck in the mud cannot pull another out of the mud.
:?:
DooDoot wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:24 am Try to stick to discussions of doctrine.
The theme of this forum section is
Balancing family life and the Dhamma, in pursuit of a happy lay life.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by auto »

SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am Maybe you might want to seek insight instead of parroting doctrinal ideas?
Again: My words are intended as encouragement for seeking insight, my words are not intended as encouragement for parroting doctrinal concepts. My words leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
why do you accuse me on parroting doctrinal ideas? you can put it more nicely.
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am What are you talking about?
What notion do I have?
I have the notion that spheres of experience experiencing 'I am' experience unease and are seeking permanent ease. And I encourage these spheres of experience to investigate whether they experience enjoyment of sexuality as beneficial or as obstructive in terms of having permanent ease. That is my notion. And I leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
Sexual enjoyment is temporal ease, if can't abstain from this kind of release then likely mind is relying on it and doesn't know better kind of release.
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am Oh dear ... religious extremism? I can't say anything against permanent ease while alive. I think that who permanently is at ease won't do any harm.
So you are saying that if celibacy is hard and painful to do then it is harming oneself and obscuring ones ease?
--
You seem don't get alchemical innuendo. Our interests are way different. I am looking for real, tangible evidence in body and mind. That said the level of your decisive insight prolly isn't affecting base elements in body.

My interest is superpowers and all other bells and whistles. So i can't waste my words on much nonsense.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by SteRo »

auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:19 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am Maybe you might want to seek insight instead of parroting doctrinal ideas?
Again: My words are intended as encouragement for seeking insight, my words are not intended as encouragement for parroting doctrinal concepts. My words leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
why do you accuse me on parroting doctrinal ideas? you can put it more nicely.
Would you prefer "reciting"? :lol:
auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:19 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am What are you talking about?
What notion do I have?
I have the notion that spheres of experience experiencing 'I am' experience unease and are seeking permanent ease. And I encourage these spheres of experience to investigate whether they experience enjoyment of sexuality as beneficial or as obstructive in terms of having permanent ease. That is my notion. And I leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
Sexual enjoyment is temporal ease, ...
Obviously you don't understand what I have written. I have never said that sexual enjoyment would be an ease. Only you say that sexual enjoyment would be an ease and I do not agree. What I have said is
I have the notion that spheres of experience experiencing 'I am' experience unease and are seeking permanent ease. And I encourage these spheres of experience to investigate whether they experience enjoyment of sexuality as beneficial or as obstructive in terms of having permanent ease. That is my notion. And I leave it open for anyone to investigate for themselves and find out for themselves to get to know for themselves.
but if you cannot understand the meaning of this :shrug:
auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:19 pm if can't abstain from this kind of release then likely mind is relying on it and doesn't know better kind of release.
:?: What are you talking about?

auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:19 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 am Oh dear ... religious extremism? I can't say anything against permanent ease while alive. I think that who permanently is at ease won't do any harm.
So you are saying that if celibacy is hard and painful to do then it is harming oneself and obscuring ones ease?
You have not understood what I have written :shrug:

auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:19 pm--
You seem don't get alchemical innuendo. Our interests are way different. I am looking for real, tangible evidence in body and mind. That said the level of your decisive insight prolly isn't affecting base elements in body.
What the hell are you talking about? :lol:
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by auto »

SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:42 pm What the hell are you talking about?
you are resorting to playing dumb to save face?
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by SteRo »

auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:47 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:42 pm What the hell are you talking about?
you are resorting to playing dumb to save face?
No, your words really don't make sense to me in the context of what I have written. I can only conclude that you do not understand what I have written.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by SteRo »

Let's leave it at that. We are incompatible users in terms of how we express ourselves and how we use language.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by auto »

SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:49 pm
auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:47 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:42 pm What the hell are you talking about?
you are resorting to playing dumb to save face?
No, your words really don't make sense to me in the context of what I have written. I can only conclude that you do not understand what I have written.
you said i am parroting doctrine, now you are saying you don't understand what i say about what i say about what you say. = you don't understand doctrines.
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:52 pm Let's leave it at that. We are incompatible users in terms of how we express ourselves and how we use language.
ok, whatever you like to make yourself believe that you have something what surpasses celibacy
User avatar
confusedlayman
Posts: 6231
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:16 am
Location: Human Realm (as of now)

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by confusedlayman »

only asubha meditation can make u temporarily off xx desire

only 3 characteristic and seeing formations as stress and gaining wisdom can root out xx desire after lessening it..

so do asubha and work on wisdom, soon u will reach anagami if u can do it.. then u r free

u can do jhana and compare the experience...

but celibacy is practiced by all ascetics in buddha lineage so its a must...

u can cry with tears full of face and suffer and still follow celibacy so u get good foundation...
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by auto »

confusedlayman wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:14 pm only asubha meditation can make u temporarily off xx desire

only 3 characteristic and seeing formations as stress and gaining wisdom can root out xx desire after lessening it..

so do asubha and work on wisdom, soon u will reach anagami if u can do it.. then u r free

u can do jhana and compare the experience...

but celibacy is practiced by all ascetics in buddha lineage so its a must...

u can cry with tears full of face and suffer and still follow celibacy so u get good foundation...
Celibacy, jobless, without own household and living off others. Best non-achievement ever! i wish more people could understand that.
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Celibacy and motivation

Post by SteRo »

auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:49 pm
auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:47 pm
you are resorting to playing dumb to save face?
No, your words really don't make sense to me in the context of what I have written. I can only conclude that you do not understand what I have written.
you said i am parroting doctrine, now you are saying you don't understand what i say about what i say about what you say. = you don't understand doctrines.
Look at how I reply to the quoted portions of your posts: Some portions of your posts are "parroting doctrine" and some portions of your posts make no sense in the context of what they are replying to. So it's both.
auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 pm = you don't understand doctrines.
Generally I take doctrines as a source of inspiration but I don't follow them like you. I am not a devout believer. And I am not a religious extremist.
auto wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:04 pm
SteRo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:52 pm Let's leave it at that. We are incompatible users in terms of how we express ourselves and how we use language.
ok, whatever you like to make yourself believe that you have something what surpasses celibacy
I don't believe anything and that surpasses everything :thumbsup:

Therefore I suggest everybody investigate whether sexual enjoyment supports or obstructs permanent ease. And with that I have not said that sexual enjoyment would be ease because from my perspective it is not.
With that I have merely said "Don't believe [in] doctrine but rely on your own insight exclusively."
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Post Reply