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lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:13 am
by confusedlayman
should a layperson go to job acc to buddhism if he has enough for living at least basic life? should he practice only dhamma or focus on wealth creating with aim of reaching top 1% and then stop working?

I think all famous arhants in buddhas time were richest and top 1% in their lay life... mahakasappa had full agriculture land, sariputta and moggalana are big merchants, ananda and aniruddha are royal family members and many kings become disciples... it has anything to do with success as monk?

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:56 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

It's more likely that the kind of mindset to succeed and make the best of yourself in the lay life, is also a mindset conducive to succeeding and making the best of yourself in the spiritual life.

Someone who is lazy, haphazard, indolent, slovenly, prone to whinging and sooking, expecting everything handed to them etc. is not going to get much done - whether in the lay life or the holy life.

As for what the layman should do, wealth brings you options. Since you never know what lies ahead, it's good to have options.

Metta,
Paul. :)

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:08 am
by Pondera
Are you from India - confused layman?

There is a great overlying CASTE SYSTEM that still prevails today. It is the reason for much of the wealth inequality of people in India.

Some are still considered “untouchables” - they work hard every day cleaning cloth (for example) to make a meagre earning while the Brahmins or Warrior castes have workers harvest their land for a great profit.

Land ownership has always been a way to stay wealthy and keep the poor poor. Even in Europe this has been the case for centuries.

You should find a simple job and make a moderate living. If you are athletic - then do something in labour that will earn you good cash. If not, find something else. I do “SECURITY” - it is a laid back job that allows me to meditate on the job. I make enough to own a home and live happily with my wife.

Be STRATEGIC! Do something that is easy on the lower back and earns you enough to be independent.

Or, as always - shave off hair and beard - dawn the ochre robes and live life by only accepting food which is offered to you.

It’s UP TO YOU!!!

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 am
by Sam Vara
It's a good question, because I think it refers to a situation that is now becoming possible for lots of people without dependents as the world economy develops. It's an option to live a modest and relatively austere life without working too hard; and that austerity and the lack of overwhelming stress from working too hard seems to provide a good basis for a life of practice.

I don't think that the Buddha praised work for its own sake, as if it had some kind of moral rather than instrumental value. But Retro makes a good point, in that people need energy and commitment to make money, and also to make progress in their practice. I think the important point here is to be honest about one's intentions. Don't pretend that you are living some sort of spiritual life when in reality you are just too lazy to get a job that pays better. And conversely, don't pretend that you are working hard to save money to give you the leisure to practice in peace later in life, when in reality you are lost in sensuality or the pleasure you get from working.

And most importantly, of course, make sure that whatever work you do is not Wrong Livelihood, and that it does not involve breaking precepts.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:21 pm
by sphairos
confusedlayman wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:13 am should a layperson go to job acc to buddhism if he has enough for living at least basic life? should he practice only dhamma or focus on wealth creating with aim of reaching top 1% and then stop working?

I think all famous arhants in buddhas time were richest and top 1% in their lay life... mahakasappa had full agriculture land, sariputta and moggalana are big merchants, ananda and aniruddha are royal family members and many kings become disciples... it has anything to do with success as monk?
they were all monks and recluses for life.

These stories about them being some merchants etc. are just legends made to present Buddhism as fitting the highest classes of society and illicit rich gifts and donations etc.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:27 pm
by confusedlayman
Sam Vara wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:43 am It's a good question, because I think it refers to a situation that is now becoming possible for lots of people without dependents as the world economy develops. It's an option to live a modest and relatively austere life without working too hard; and that austerity and the lack of overwhelming stress from working too hard seems to provide a good basis for a life of practice.

I don't think that the Buddha praised work for its own sake, as if it had some kind of moral rather than instrumental value. But Retro makes a good point, in that people need energy and commitment to make money, and also to make progress in their practice. I think the important point here is to be honest about one's intentions. Don't pretend that you are living some sort of spiritual life when in reality you are just too lazy to get a job that pays better. And conversely, don't pretend that you are working hard to save money to give you the leisure to practice in peace later in life, when in reality you are lost in sensuality or the pleasure you get from working.

And most importantly, of course, make sure that whatever work you do is not Wrong Livelihood, and that it does not involve breaking precepts.
Thanks

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:07 pm
by SarathW
In my opinion many monks are working harder than many lay people. We all have to some work for the fiction of the society hence we all should have a right livelyhood while keeping time for our practice. Then practice while working.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:36 pm
by Disciple
Work to live not live to work. The most wealthiest and successful in the world will have to depart from their wealth too eventually.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:16 am
by mario92
I am in a similar position, the only way i could develop in spiritual practice would be when i leave my catholic family and live independently financially in another home or in a monastery. I wish this could be soon. I donate to the sangha with the intent in mind of being independent and have a good job.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:04 am
by SarathW
mario92 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:16 am I am in a similar position, the only way i could develop in spiritual practice would be when i leave my catholic family and live independently financially in another home or in a monastery. I wish this could be soon. I donate to the sangha with the intent in mind of being independent and have a good job.
I wish you all the best but do not wait for a perfect day to practice. Start right now.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:00 am
by JC938
Be aware of the arising of greed. You don't need anything more than the basic needs which you get as gifts when you become a monk.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:05 am
by Inedible
Earning a living can be very challenging. It is an opportunity to learn, grow, and change for the better. You have to deal with a variety of difficult people. It also tends to be the biggest source of structure in the life of a layperson. If you want to retire from work to meditate, you only need a certain amount of money to do it. You can determine how much you need better than we can. It isn't that much. Start saving money and don't wait to meditate every day.

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:44 pm
by confusedlayman
Inedible wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:05 am Earning a living can be very challenging. It is an opportunity to learn, grow, and change for the better. You have to deal with a variety of difficult people. It also tends to be the biggest source of structure in the life of a layperson. If you want to retire from work to meditate, you only need a certain amount of money to do it. You can determine how much you need better than we can. It isn't that much. Start saving money and don't wait to meditate every day.
hi, in daily work people always motivated by greed and self view and they say they want to improve themselves and waste time in personality development when they are not freed from birth ageing etc... how can people waste time? but again it comes to basic survival

Re: lay person and job

Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 5:14 am
by Inedible
confusedlayman wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:44 pm hi, in daily work people always motivated by greed and self-view and they say they want to improve themselves and waste time in personality development when they are not freed from birth, aging, etc... how can people waste time? but again it comes to basic survival
All the people I know in person chose the wrong religion. Or chose no religion. It isn't easy to fix that.