Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Tex
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Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by Tex »

7. Nacca-gita-vadita-visukkadassana mala-gandha-vilepana-dharana-mandana-vibhusanathana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami

I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.

8. Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami

I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.
From: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... asila.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm curious how other lay Theravadins observe these precepts on Uposatha days.

With regard to 7 above, most of it is obvious, but where do you draw the line on "entertainment"? I typically refrain from playing my guitar or going out to a movie or concert or sporting event, choosing to spend the day at home with extra study time and meditation, but what about watching a movie or ballgame on tv at home? What about the news? What about talk radio in the car? Should we refrain from entertainment completely on Uposatha days?

And regarding 8 above, how do you put that into practice? On a few Uposatha days I've spent the night on the floor in a sleeping bag, other times I've slept on the couch instead of in my "luxurious" bed (which is really pretty basic anyway). Is sleeping on the floor the right idea or would you consider that overkill?

How do you observe these precepts?...
"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus
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Mexicali
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by Mexicali »

I spent a couple years sleeping on floors, it really doesn't seem like that big of a thing to me. That aside, I'm curious about the answers as well. I haven't done any uposatha days yet.
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Tex,

Regarding #7: I would consider these to fall under the banner of entertainments. I would ask myself, "What is the motive for doing this?" and if it is entertainment or even engagement with the world, I'm likely to try to avoid it. Admittedly, I don't control what potentially entertaining stimuli others put into my environment, but I don't add to it, and don't passively accept it.

Regarding #8: I won't be taking this precept any longer, because my wife doesn't want my son to get any subliminal messages about the full moon, and menstrual cycles, and Daddy sleeping on the floor. It's a pretty obscure reason, but I'm happy enough to abide by it. For the record, I actually prefer sleeping on a thin mattress on the floor to a traditional bed, so for me it's not a case of submitting to luxurious preferences at all.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by salmon »

hi tex,

Precept #7 : Like Retro, I refrain from anything that is considered a form of entertainment (indulging the senses). To be more specific, I don't listen to my ipod, I don't watch TV, don't read "garbage periodicals", don't surf the net for anything non-related to dhamma, including facebook games, youtube, etc. But I will continue reading current affairs. As I am in the media industry, I cannot always avoid dealing with music or prettifying an image. On those days, I'm extra strict with catching my mind the moment I seem to be indulging in the images/music (eg. unconsciously tapping my feet to music). Every hour or so, I'll do a check on my mind to see its state. I also dress down on days I take this precept. Since I don't normally use perfumes (or makeup), I have no problems with the beautifying bit :tongue:

Precept #8 : I've been sleeping on the floor for the last few years, so this, too, was never much of a problem. Previously when I had a bed, I would sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor. During the day, I would choose to sit on the floor or on hard chairs/stools, instead of sofas. I'm also mindful to not cross my legs but to sit with both soles flat on the ground. (this is a minor training thing that I was taught when I was on retreat in Thailand...the other thing is to make sure I was sitting before I ate or drank)

HTH

metta.
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Well, I've not been able to keep #7 yet. I wondered for a bit whether we weren't supposed to wear deodorant on Uposatha days, but then I thought about the intention and weaeing deodorant for me isn't about smelling nice, it's about not smelling bad. Aftershave, on the other hand, is something I avoid. Entertainment is more difficult and it's something I'll be working on.

I find keeping #8 a bit easier. I just grab the duvet from the spare room and sleep on the floor.

Out of curiousity, how do you pronounce 'Uposatha'. I say it like 'Oo-Po-Shah-Tah' but I don't know if that's right.

Sorry, back on topic...
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by zavk »

retrofuturist wrote: Regarding #8: I won't be taking this precept any longer, because my wife doesn't want my son to get any subliminal messages about the full moon, and menstrual cycles, and Daddy sleeping on the floor. It's a pretty obscure reason, but I'm happy enough to abide by it.
Really? Heh... that's funny, but understandable.
With metta,
zavk
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Ben
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by Ben »

Hi all

disclaimer>\\ I don't keep the uposotha precepts except on retreat. With a young family and the only cook in the house, its impracticable at this [point in my life. I also err on the side of strictness with regards to issues of sila.
Having said that, the way I would approach precept no 7 is no tv, no music, no books/magazines , no dancing, no sensory entertainments of any kind and absolutely avoid them where possible.
As for precept no 8, I think either sleep on the floor or thin mattress on the floor is the way to go.
Kind regards

Ben
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

I keep number 7 on Uposatha Days, and number 8 occasionally.

I keep No. 7 ~ by not partying, not watching t.v., not reading fiction, not going to the theatre, not wearing make-up, not wearing perfume or jewellery, wearing only plain white serviceable clothes, not listening to music cd's. meditating or hearing dhamma talks during the day while seated on the cusion, and noble silence except for necessary communication.

metta
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by DNS »

retrofuturist wrote: Regarding #8: I won't be taking this precept any longer, because my wife doesn't want my son to get any subliminal messages about the full moon, and menstrual cycles, and Daddy sleeping on the floor. It's a pretty obscure reason, but I'm happy enough to abide by it. For the record, I actually prefer sleeping on a thin mattress on the floor to a traditional bed, so for me it's not a case of submitting to luxurious preferences at all.
:thumbsup:

I think this is a great example of not being lost in the letter to avoid the spirit of the teachings. The Buddha refers to the Letter and spirit of his teachings. The purpose of #8 is simply to live humbly. It is primarily a monastic rule so for lay people the important thing is to simply not have too luxurious a bed or sleeping arrangement at least for those days when the 8 precepts are taken. Not interfering with the normal family relationship while still having a humble sleeping arrangement is an excellent way to adjust this practice, in my opinion.
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by DNS »

#7 is easy for me; never been a big fan of shows and music anyway.

For #8 I always sleep on a low platform bed anyway. I don't get caught up in the 'exact' number of inches off the ground it is because I feel the important part of the teaching is about living and sleeping in a humble arrangement, not a luxurious one.

For monastics, the exact height may be a more important issue, but for lay people, I don't think it is.
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by Individual »

Tex wrote:
7. Nacca-gita-vadita-visukkadassana mala-gandha-vilepana-dharana-mandana-vibhusanathana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami

I undertake the precept to refrain from dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments, wearing garlands, using perfumes, and beautifying the body with cosmetics.

8. Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami

I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.
From: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... asila.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm curious how other lay Theravadins observe these precepts on Uposatha days.

With regard to 7 above, most of it is obvious, but where do you draw the line on "entertainment"? I typically refrain from playing my guitar or going out to a movie or concert or sporting event, choosing to spend the day at home with extra study time and meditation, but what about watching a movie or ballgame on tv at home? What about the news? What about talk radio in the car? Should we refrain from entertainment completely on Uposatha days?

And regarding 8 above, how do you put that into practice? On a few Uposatha days I've spent the night on the floor in a sleeping bag, other times I've slept on the couch instead of in my "luxurious" bed (which is really pretty basic anyway). Is sleeping on the floor the right idea or would you consider that overkill?

How do you observe these precepts?...
I would love to observe precept #7, but I am addicted to videogames. With regards to #8, I sleep on the floor every night anyway, because I find it to be more comfortable than a bed.

I don't think most laypeople need to follow them, but it is definitely necessary for monks.
TheDhamma wrote:#7 is easy for me; never been a big fan of shows and music anyway.
No television? You use the internet, though. Do you never casually surf the net?
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Individual,
Individual wrote:I would love to observe precept #7, but I am addicted to videogames.
Perhaps all the more reason to try it one full-moon day.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by DNS »

Individual wrote: No television? You use the internet, though. Do you never casually surf the net?
When I watch television, it is almost entirely the news or news type shows or documentaries. I rarely casually surf the net, so when I want to follow the 8 precepts, it is pretty easy. On the internet I mainly come to this site, http://www.dharmawheel.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and maybe a couple of other Buddhist forums, or blogs and that's about it.

Once in a while I will watch some sports, but not nearly as much I used to do and not on Uposatha days. :tongue:
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by Mexicali »

To me, it's really hard drawing a line between recreation------everything else, because I enjoy most of what I do. When I cook, weight train, read news, garden, etc it's all generally engaging to me but I'm not doing any of it for fun, per se. If/when I start doing 8 precept days I'll probably just hang at home and meditate, study, etc cos everything else will just feel like a normal day.
"We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception."
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Re: Uposatha -- How do you observe precepts 7 and 8?

Post by sherubtse »

For me, I do not watch TV or listen to the radio. Also, no computer use at all. No reading other than the suttas or books on the Dhamma. I eat nothing after 12 noon until 4AM the following morning. After 12 noon, I only drink water, tea (no milk, but then I never take milk in tea) and fruit juices. Lastly, when out for a walk, I keep my gaze downwards.

In time, I hope to be able to keep the ten precepts.

The hardest one for me to keep by far is the one regarding food. It is a real struggle to get through the night on an empty stomach.

Having said that, the discipline is well worth the effort, as are the lessons that I am taught about my desires and cravings.

With metta,
Sherubtse

P.S. Yes I know that I have written about more than Precepts 7 & 8, but it seems reasonable to speak about the Eight Precepts as a whole.
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