How to deal with accusations against my practices

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
mongaloid502
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How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by mongaloid502 »

Hi,

I have recently begun to investigate the world of Buddhism and found the benefits of meditation to be profound!(both spiritually and merely in terms of mood/everyday life outlook)
My (christian) parents and friends however seem to be taking issue with my new found practices and to be honest I don't really know how to answer them . I know I shouldn't be worried about what other people think, but the questions they ask are beginning to stir doubt in my own mind. Their accusations of Buddhism are that it is only attractive because:

1) by belonging to it you can touch the infinite
2) you can have joy without concrete religious obligations.

Can anyone help me to understand these claims?
Thanks!
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Polar Bear
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by Polar Bear »

I think you should tell them that 1) doesn't even really make sense and that 2) well, what''s wrong with 2. Do your parents only want you to have joy if it's bound up in religious obligations?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Your best possible course of action is to remain polite, compassionate, and kind. The best advertisement for the positive nature of your practice is your demeanor when faced with this criticism.

I too come from a non-supportive Christian family. Realize that you've discovered a wonderful opportunity in the Dhamma and try to have compassion for those who persist in delusion. Try and explain your practice if you can, but if they won't listen, then just go on your own and wait for them to see the change it brings in your life.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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cooran
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by cooran »

Hello M,

Show them that Christians meditate also:

Christian Meditation Australia
http://www.christianmeditationaustralia.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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rowboat
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by rowboat »

Your best possible course of action is to remain polite, compassionate, and kind. The best advertisement for the positive nature of your practice is your demeanor when faced with this criticism.
:goodpost:
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
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Dan74
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by Dan74 »

mongaloid502 wrote:Hi,

I have recently begun to investigate the world of Buddhism and found the benefits of meditation to be profound!(both spiritually and merely in terms of mood/everyday life outlook)
My (christian) parents and friends however seem to be taking issue with my new found practices and to be honest I don't really know how to answer them . I know I shouldn't be worried about what other people think, but the questions they ask are beginning to stir doubt in my own mind. Their accusations of Buddhism are that it is only attractive because:

1) by belonging to it you can touch the infinite
2) you can have joy without concrete religious obligations.

Can anyone help me to understand these claims?
Thanks!
These are quotes from Cardinal Ratzinger (the 1) and 2)). How come?
_/|\_
nobody12345
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by nobody12345 »

The strategy could be 2 folds.
One is developing Metta (friendliness/loving kindness/ compassion and etc.).
The other is developing equanimity.
By developing Metta, one should try to develop the quality that is noble and wholesome.
Action speaks louder than words.
By developing equanimity, one also needs to be able to stay aloof and detached when it is proper to do so.
When the Buddha discussed the method of removing of unwanted thoughts/grudges, he mentioned when all the possible strategies is not working, then one should direct attention from that object and not give any further attention to it.
Many times, by living the proper life style of the Buddhist, one can gain some respect from the people who see the Buddhism as something suspicious.
However, in some cases, there are people who hate the Buddhism/Buddhists no matter what.
For those occasions, one also needs to develop the skill of staying aloof/detached.
Don't partake in their meal of negative mental proliferations.
Just remind yourself that those men and women are the owners of their own Kamma so let them own up to it, not you.
Don't get involved.
Let them be.
ps: Both of the strategies need to be developed especially if you are living in the environment that is hostile to the Dhamma/Buddhism such as a fundamental, evangelical Christian community/culture.
Last edited by nobody12345 on Tue May 08, 2012 12:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Dan74 wrote:These are quotes from Cardinal Ratzinger (the 1) and 2)). How come?
:spy:

:popcorn:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
nobody12345
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by nobody12345 »

If I may add one more thing about the subject of religions/ infinity/ and etc.
It's more likely you cannot have productive arguments with others regarding the such matters.
Especially when you are arguing with fundamental Christians, it doesn't matter who has better logic and reasoning.
It all comes down to the motto of all the religions (minus true Buddhism) that you should 'believe' first then God will give you the salvation.
Just skip the whole arguments.
Most cases, it's unbeneficial to argue or reason with them.
Your life is precious and you don't have that much time to live.
How long do we live?
80 years? 90 years? 100 years?
Let them argue and speculate things forever and ever.
We got better things to do such as practicing Dhamma so we can accomplish THE ultimate prison break once and for all.
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ground
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by ground »

mongaloid502 wrote:Their accusations of Buddhism are that it is only attractive because:

1) by belonging to it you can touch the infinite
2) you can have joy without concrete religious obligations.

Can anyone help me to understand these claims?
Thanks!
Whether from you parents or Cardinal Ratzinger or both I don't even understand the meaning of those "accusations".

Kind regards
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Kamran
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by Kamran »

You may want to point out classical Christian meditation books like St. John of the Cross’ The Dark Night of
The Soul. It is my understanding that Christian stages of meditation are mapped out remarkably similar to the Buddhist in their fundamentals.
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icyteru
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by icyteru »

Kamran wrote:You may want to point out classical Christian meditation books like St. John of the Cross’ The Dark Night of
The Soul. It is my understanding that Christian stages of meditation are mapped out remarkably similar to the Buddhist in their fundamentals.
yes. Bernadette Roberts learn from St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila.
read "The Experience of No-Self"
The most complete english tipitaka on the internet world. http://realtruthlife.blogspot.com .
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puppha
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by puppha »

Hello,

I know what you can feel as my wife turned born-again Christian about 1.5 years ago (she was a moderate Christian before).
5. "If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?"

"Certainly not, Lord."

"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'

6. "And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.'
DN01

From my experience, I think it depends what "flavour" of Christianity your relatives are. The more they go on the fundamentalist side of things, the less they will listen to you or consider your choices all right.

Regarding (1), I would say that I don't understand the statement. Buddhism is eminently practical and grounded in this reality. There are no such "fancies" as "touching the infinite".
Regarding (2), I would say that in Buddhism, all the following are religious practices: meditation, reading suttas, informing yourself about the world, discussing with other people, doing the washing up, respecting the 5 precepts, etc. Going to a temple for a formal service is just an extension of the above.

My advice to you is this: it is very easy for you to enter their games. You have to understand that they judge your practice based on their religious framework and prejudices (and this is often unconscious). Do not follow the paths they want to put you on.
Acknowledge what they say is true when it is true, false when it is false, and that you don't know when you don't know. It's perfectly OK to say "I don't know". Even an Arahant does not know everything, but he/she knows enough to be liberated. It's not because you don't know that their answers become automatically the truth.
Also, do not seek their approval. For us westerns, the middle way is quite a lonely path. You can also try to meet other like-mind people at your local monastery, or read/post on this forum. It's good to see that other people are following the same path, it makes you feel you're not that weird!

All the best!

With Metta
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SDC
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by SDC »

Dan74 wrote:These are quotes from Cardinal Ratzinger (the 1) and 2)). How come?
Starts with "T" and ends with "roll".

Nice pick up, Dan.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Sokehi
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Re: How to deal with accusations against my practices

Post by Sokehi »

puppha wrote:Hello,

I know what you can feel as my wife turned born-again Christian about 1.5 years ago (she was a moderate Christian before).
5. "If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?"

"Certainly not, Lord."

"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'

6. "And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.'
DN01

From my experience, I think it depends what "flavour" of Christianity your relatives are. The more they go on the fundamentalist side of things, the less they will listen to you or consider your choices all right.

Regarding (1), I would say that I don't understand the statement. Buddhism is eminently practical and grounded in this reality. There are no such "fancies" as "touching the infinite".
Regarding (2), I would say that in Buddhism, all the following are religious practices: meditation, reading suttas, informing yourself about the world, discussing with other people, doing the washing up, respecting the 5 precepts, etc. Going to a temple for a formal service is just an extension of the above.

My advice to you is this: it is very easy for you to enter their games. You have to understand that they judge your practice based on their religious framework and prejudices (and this is often unconscious). Do not follow the paths they want to put you on.
Acknowledge what they say is true when it is true, false when it is false, and that you don't know when you don't know. It's perfectly OK to say "I don't know". Even an Arahant does not know everything, but he/she knows enough to be liberated. It's not because you don't know that their answers become automatically the truth.
Also, do not seek their approval. For us westerns, the middle way is quite a lonely path. You can also try to meet other like-mind people at your local monastery, or read/post on this forum. It's good to see that other people are following the same path, it makes you feel you're not that weird!

All the best!

With Metta
Excellent posting! Anumodana! :namaste:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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