ridding yourself of Desire
ridding yourself of Desire
If the cause of all suffering is desire, then how do you start the path without first wanting to? and if the answer to that is; you start the path by understanding its right, then how do you first understand without a want to understand? or is this the exception to the rule? OR is there meant to be suffering experienced along (or at the beginning of) the path? This has been my biggest issue with understanding yet, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Re: ridding yourself of Desire
SN 51.15 wrote:"In that case, brahman, let me question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think: Didn't you first have desire, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular desire allayed?"
"Yes, sir."
...
"So it is with an arahant whose mental effluents are ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular desire is allayed.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: ridding yourself of Desire
it is not desire but grasping [for desire]that causes suffering.Seth19930 wrote:If the cause of all suffering is desire, then how do you start the path without first wanting to? and if the answer to that is; you start the path by understanding its right, then how do you first understand without a want to understand? or is this the exception to the rule? OR is there meant to be suffering experienced along (or at the beginning of) the path? This has been my biggest issue with understanding yet, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
and not all desire is skilfulness to engage in. such as the desire to do skillful things.
Edit in [square brackets]
Last edited by Cittasanto on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: ridding yourself of Desire
Thinking thus may be an instance of not suffering enough or of not suffering at all. In that case why look for any path at all? Not looking for any path one may of course ask these kind of questions since they appear interesting to the intellect. If there is spare time why not? Riddles may be an interesting pastime in deed.Seth19930 wrote:If the cause of all suffering is desire, then how do you start the path without first wanting to? and if the answer to that is; you start the path by understanding its right, then how do you first understand without a want to understand? or is this the exception to the rule?
... And what is the supporting condition for faith? 'Suffering' should be the reply.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interesting. If the term desire does not mean the same as the term grasping how about the term craving? Craving is said to cause suffering, isn't it? Is there a difference in meaning as to desire & craving?Cittasanto wrote:it is not desire but grasping that causes suffering.
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Re: ridding yourself of Desire
good catch, Thanks!ground wrote:Interesting. If the term desire does not mean the same as the term grasping how about the term craving? Craving is said to cause suffering, isn't it? Is there a difference in meaning as to desire & craving?Cittasanto wrote:it is not desire but grasping that causes suffering.
I will ammend that to
it is not desire, but grasping for desire that causes suffering.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: ridding yourself of Desire
Sounds like a cheap cop-out if you ask me.Cittasanto wrote:good catch, Thanks!ground wrote:Interesting. If the term desire does not mean the same as the term grasping how about the term craving? Craving is said to cause suffering, isn't it? Is there a difference in meaning as to desire & craving?Cittasanto wrote:it is not desire but grasping that causes suffering.
I will ammend that to
it is not desire, but grasping for desire that causes suffering.
What is grasped at? What is clung to?
The intellect with all its acquired knowledge for example. Whatever that is in terms of the five aggregates. According to the theory that is what is clung to: the five aggregates.
But in the end our brains will quit their jobs and we can't theorize anymore.
Imagine you'll have a stroke or horrible accident with brain damage and end up like this:
What then?
It's already happening to me. My brain hurts.
Maybe the 2012 apocalypse has really already begun, but it takes its course very slowly. We'll all end up like this:
Imagine that!
Sorrow, lamentation, grief and despair.
Don't let it come to this!
Re: ridding yourself of Desire
Say you have desire, craving, grasping or clinging to smoking. You come to the realisation that smoking is bad for you. You have desire for quitting smoking. So you work towards it and quit smoking. Nnow your are happier and healthier person.
Nothing wrong with that desire!
Nothing wrong with that desire!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: ridding yourself of Desire
if you say so. but why consume your time theorising about one possibility. Death is certain make use of what you have whale you have it like there is only this moment left.perkele wrote: Sounds like a cheap cop-out if you ask me.
What is grasped at? What is clung to?
The intellect with all its acquired knowledge for example. Whatever that is in terms of the five aggregates. According to the theory that is what is clung to: the five aggregates.
But in the end our brains will quit their jobs and we can't theorize anymore.
Imagine you'll have a stroke or horrible accident with brain damage and end up like this:
What then?
It's already happening to me. My brain hurts.
Maybe the 2012 apocalypse has really already begun, but it takes its course very slowly. We'll all end up like this:
Imagine that!
Sorrow, lamentation, grief and despair.
Don't let it come to this!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: ridding yourself of Desire
I am sorry. I realize my communication skills are a bit off.Cittasanto wrote:if you say so. but why consume your time theorising about one possibility. Death is certain make use of what you have whale you have it like there is only this moment left.
I will try to heed your advice.
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Re: ridding yourself of Desire
Tanha is not the same as chanda.
Ajahn Succito states:
Ajahn Succito states:
Sometimes taṇhā is translated as “desire,” but that gives rise to some crucial misinterpretations with reference to the way of Liberation. As we shall see, some form of desire is essential in order to aspire to, and persist in, cultivating the path out of dukkha. Desire as an eagerness to offer, to commit, to apply oneself to meditation, is called chanda. It’s a psychological “yes,” a choice, not a pathology. In fact, you could summarize Dhamma training as the transformation of taṇhā into chanda. It’s a process whereby we guide volition, grab and hold on to the steering wheel, and travel with clarity toward our deeper well-being. So we’re not trying to get rid of desire (which would take another kind of desire, wouldn’t it). Instead, we are trying to transmute it, take it out of the shadow of gratification and need, and use its aspiration and vigor to bring us into light and clarity.
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Re: ridding yourself of Desire
Your communication is fine.perkele wrote:I am sorry. I realize my communication skills are a bit off.Cittasanto wrote:if you say so. but why consume your time theorising about one possibility. Death is certain make use of what you have whale you have it like there is only this moment left.
I will try to heed your advice.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill