Is everyting predetermined?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
user99
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Is everyting predetermined?

Post by user99 »

Is everything predetermined?
user99
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by user99 »

Goenka said that everything is predetermined.
And i hope he didnt just only ment choices one make.
pegembara
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by pegembara »

If you mean that things that happened were meant to be, then yes. They were all due to past causes and conditions being right for their occurrence. As for the future - Who knows? But only when the conditions are right will the desired outcome happen regardless of our efforts. But don't expect the water to boil if you don't put the kettle on. :tongue:
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
SarathW
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by SarathW »

user99 wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:40 am Is everything predetermined?
No.
Operation of Kamma Vipaka is not easy to predict.
Kamma is only one of the factors determine the future.
There are five Niyamas.
Kamm, Utu, Bijja, citta and Dhamma
If every thing is pre-determined, there is no point of right effort.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
chownah
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by chownah »

user99 wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:40 am Is everything predetermined?
It is impossible to know if everything is predetermined. There is not even a way that could possibly be used to determine this. If someone thinks they know of a way to determine this I hope that they would bring it here as I would be really glad to find such a way.

chownah
user99
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by user99 »

What is all the niyamas?
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DNS
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by DNS »

See also this thread, 61 pages:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6322
SarathW
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by SarathW »

user99 wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:35 am What is all the niyamas?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niyama
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Laurens
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by Laurens »

I don't think it's the kind of question that has any use to our practise.

First off the answer may vary depending on what you mean by predetermined. You get atheist determinists as well as those who feel things are predetermined to fit into a plan made by some supreme being.

Secondly there is no real way to know. The important things are that there is at least the illusion that you right now can choose between being loving as opposed to being evil, you can choose to sit down and meditate. Whether or not those are real choices is pretty much unknowable, you can sit there and scratch your chin over it, but you'll never get an answer so it's a waste of your time. You are better off continuing to make the right choices regardless of whether or not their outcome is predetermined.

Supposing everything were predetermined. What are you going to do about it? It doesn't change anything about your practise or the fact that there appears to be choice involved in our lives. If there is something you don't like about the idea, that's fine, but you're never going to change how the universe is, so use your time for better things. I don't think the answer is really knowable.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Bundokji
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by Bundokji »

Things are predetermined only in a closed system where a set of assumptions is agreed upon.

The idea of determinism is somehow linked to causality. Through causality, we can predict the future, invent new things and determine a certain cause at a certain point in the past, such as investigating a crime and knowing who committed it through examining phenomena and reversing the causal chain back to the source.

For causality to work, we assume that things are independent by defining them, then they lose their independence by linking them to another presumably independent thing through the causal chain ad infinitum. In practicle terms, the causal chain ends when the purpose of using causality is achieved, so in the case of trying to find a murderer, the causal chain stops when responsibility is determined. While it is somehow unfair to stop the causal chain abruptly at a certain point, the cost of not doing so is higher than doing it. This is why, maintaining the system is more important than the individual, and the individual himself does not only become a prisoner of the system, but he would unconsciously defend it with all his powers even when he tries to rebel against it.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Spiny Norman
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by Spiny Norman »

user99 wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:40 am Is everything predetermined?
No. Everything arises in dependence upon conditions, but we are able to alter the conditions.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
justindesilva
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by justindesilva »

user99 wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:35 am What is all the niyamas?
When lord budda preached the damma it was to alleviate
the worldly beings from dukka or suffering. Predetermination of bhava or life of beings can only be understood per paticca samuppada , especially with the first nidana as avijja paccaya sankara. We as beings is a formation due to our ignorance of four noble truths.
Our merits and sins in the past determine our present status in life. Only arya ashtanga marga or noble eightfold path can change this so called predetermination with dana sila bhavana as it is then we can elevate our status quo as a being.
Lord budda revealed that niyamas of utu or physical forces , citta ( mind) damma niyama world conditions
and kamma ( cause and effect) and heredity or bija niyama are subjective of causes for dukka.
Predetermination is not caused by a god or theistic force but is due to our past.
dharmacorps
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by dharmacorps »

If everything were pre determined, there'd be no point to practicing the dhamma and discipline. The Buddha specifically rejected this idea.
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Sherab
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by Sherab »

Laurens wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:49 am I don't think it's the kind of question that has any use to our practise.
How it is answered is useful for practice.
Past actions determined the present experience. Therefore the present is determinate.
Present choices and the actions that follow determine future experience. Therefore the future is indeterminate.
Knowing the first motivates us to accept our circumstances and not create unwanted future experiences with present actions with body, speech, mind.
Knowing the second motivates us to practise (with body, speech and mind) to create better future experience.
user99
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Re: Is everyting predetermined?

Post by user99 »

Thank you all for your answer i feel a lotta more calmer Now thank you from the bortom of my heart
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