cappuccino wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:29 pm
And what do the astute agree on as not existing, which I too say does not exist? Form that is permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable. Feeling … Perception … Choices … Consciousness that is permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable. This is what the astute agree on as not existing, which I too say does not exist.
in other words, consciousness is inconstant
changing, altering, moment to moment
http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/u/upādāna
Upādāna,(nt.) [fr.upa + ā + dā] -- (lit.that (material) substratum by means of which an active process is kept alive or going),fuel,supply,provision; adj.(-°) supported by,drawing one’s existence from S.I,69; II 85 (aggikkhandho °assa pariyādānā by means of taking up fuel); V,284 (vāt°); J.III,342 sa-upādāna (adj.) provided with fuel S.IV,399; anupādāna without fuel DhA.II,163.‹-› 2.(appld.) “drawing upon”,grasping,holding on,grip,attachment; adj.(-°) finding one’s support by or in,clinging to,taking up,nourished by.See on term Dhs.trsln. 323 & Cpd.171.They are classified as 4 upādānāni or four Graspings viz.kām°,diṭṭh°,sīlabbat°,attavād° or the graspings arising from sense-desires,speculation,belief in rites,belief in the soul-theory D.II,58; III,230; M.I,51,66; S.II,3; V 59; Dhs.1213; Ps.I,129; II,46,47; Vbh.375; Nett 48; Vism.569.-- For upādāna in var.connections see the foll.passages:D.I,25; II,31,33,56; III,278; M.I,66,136 (attavād°) 266; S.II,14,17,30,85; III,10,13 sq.,101,135,167,191; IV,32,87 sq.,102 (tannissitaṁ viññāṇaṁ tadupādānaṁ),390,400 (= taṇhā); A.IV,69; V,111 (upāy°); Sn.170,358,546; Ps.I,51 sq.,193; II,45 sq,113; Vbh.18,30,67,79,119,132; Dhs.1059,1136,1213,1536 sq.; Nett 28 sq.,41 sq.,114 sq.; DhA.IV,194.-- sa° full of attachment (to life) M.I,65; Vin.III,111; S.IV,102; an° unattached,not showing attachment to existence S.IV,399; Vin.III,111; Th.1,840; Miln.32; DA.I,98.
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https://suttacentral.net/sn22.48/en/sujato
Any kind of consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; coarse or fine; inferior or superior; far or near: this is called the aggregate of consciousness.
Yaṃ kiñci viññāṇaṃ atītānāgatapaccuppannaṃ ajjhattaṃ vā bahiddhā vā oḷārikaṃ vā sukhumaṃ vā hīnaṃ vā paṇītaṃ vā yaṃ dūre santike vā, ayaṃ vuccati viññāṇakkhandho.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.94/en/sujato
And what do the astute agree on as existing, which I too say exists?
Kiñca, bhikkhave, atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ, yamahaṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi?
Form that is impermanent, suffering, and perishable.
Rūpaṃ, bhikkhave, aniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ atthisammataṃ loke paṇḍitānaṃ; ahampi taṃ ‘atthī’ti vadāmi.
see the point is the qualities like altering changing etc is what you can recon that thing is not relyable source, like a teacher who uses logic or other means is not relyable since sometimes it is good, sometimes not so good.
same is with jhana factors you discard them because they are fabricated and not giving a lasting result climbing into better and better places and jhanas this way.
just believing there is no soul isn't relyable for me, i need more and better support than just knowing that there is next life and better things waiting for me.