Who is doing the "attaching"?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Ryan95227
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:29 am

Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by Ryan95227 »

As I become more aware of the contents of my mind, I'm beginning to notice that intitial/neutral thought gives rise to feeling/emotion/baggage which gives rise to possible actions. If there is "attachment" to the initial thought there comes immediate suffering (unpleasantness, hatred,anger) What I notice is that as soon as the process of attachment is seen there is no progression towards suffering. But the most puzzling about all this is that there seems to be nothing that is doing the attaching YET there is something that is attaching to these thoughts? Who is doing the attaching? It doesn't seem to be backed by a subtle thought. Any answers?
User avatar
salayatananirodha
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by salayatananirodha »

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.012.than.html wrote:"Lord, who clings?"

"Not a valid question," the Blessed One said. "I don't say 'clings.' If I were to say 'clings,' then 'Who clings?' would be a valid question. But I don't say that. When I don't say that, the valid question is 'From what as a requisite condition comes clinging?' And the valid answer is, 'From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging. From clinging as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.[1]

"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of the six sense media[2] comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
User avatar
Pondera
Posts: 3073
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by Pondera »

And in what state does “"the remainderless fading & cessation of the six sense media[2]” come about?
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
SarathW
Posts: 21238
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by SarathW »

-ear consciousness attaches to the sound
- tongue consciousness attaches to taste etc
for instance, when I say I attach to an apple it involves six senses (consciousness).
It is a process.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
one_awakening
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:04 am

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by one_awakening »

Ryan95227 wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:58 am Who is doing the attaching?
There's a problem with your question, You are assuming that there is a self doing the attaching.
“You only lose what you cling to”
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27848
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
one_awakening wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:35 am
Ryan95227 wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:58 am Who is doing the attaching?
There's a problem with your question, You are assuming that there is a self doing the attaching.
:goodpost:

Indeed... it's a "wrong question".

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
SarathW
Posts: 21238
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by SarathW »

Who is writing this post?
According to Buddhist teaching, it is the result of eye consciousness seen your OP a few hours back.
If I did not see your post I would not have written this post.
Then who saw the OP?
That is a result of another previous action. If I did not join Dhamma Wheel six years ago I would not be typing this post.
Because we are not Arahants it is not easy to understand this.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by binocular »

one_awakening wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:35 amThere's a problem with your question, You are assuming that there is a self doing the attaching.
If one listens to Buddhist talks and reads Buddhist texts, one can come across sentences that contain the formulation "we are attached to" or "you are attached to" (just google them for some examples).

These Buddhist teachers appear to assume "there is a self doing the attaching" (or something to that effect), or they wouldn't write or say those sentences.

So the OP is hardly alone in their assumption that there is a self doing the attaching.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
SarathW
Posts: 21238
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by SarathW »

Is this question similar to "who's planting the trees in the forest"?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Srilankaputra
Posts: 1210
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:56 am
Location: Sri Lanka

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by Srilankaputra »

SarathW wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:17 am Is this question similar to "who's planting the trees in the forest"?
Thanks. I'm copying this to my notes.

"Ye dhamma hetuppabhavā"

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by Sam Vara »

binocular wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:09 am
one_awakening wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:35 amThere's a problem with your question, You are assuming that there is a self doing the attaching.
If one listens to Buddhist talks and reads Buddhist texts, one can come across sentences that contain the formulation "we are attached to" or "you are attached to" (just google them for some examples).

These Buddhist teachers appear to assume "there is a self doing the attaching" (or something to that effect), or they wouldn't write or say those sentences.

So the OP is hardly alone in their assumption that there is a self doing the attaching.
Excellent point. It's clear that there is ample room within Buddhist discourse for an agent that does things. The Buddha himself often talks in such a way. In SN 22.22, for example, he talks of "the carrier of the burden" (i.e. the burden of the 5 clinging-aggregates): an individual (puggalo) who is identifiable in terms of name and surname.
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by auto »

one_awakening wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:35 am
Ryan95227 wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:58 am Who is doing the attaching?
There's a problem with your question, You are assuming that there is a self doing the attaching.
If to read the Sutta quote on second post then it is about asking " who is attaching", but Buddha doesn't say "attaching" therefore the valid question is:
"from what as a requisite condition comes attaching". And the answer is from craving as requisite condition comes attaching.

that way you won't fall to notions of if there is self or not.

https://suttacentral.net/sn27.10/en/sujato
At Sāvatthī. “Mendicants, desire and greed for form, feeling, perception, choices, or consciousness is a corruption of the mind. When a mendicant has given up mental corruption in these five cases, their mind inclines to renunciation. A mind imbued with renunciation is declared to be capable of directly knowing anything that can be realized.”
directly knowing
..

https://suttacentral.net/sn28.1/en/sujato
…..“That must be because Venerable Sāriputta has long ago totally eradicated ego, possessiveness, and the underlying tendency to conceit. Tathā hi panāyasmato sāriputtassa dīgharattaṃ ahaṅkāramamaṅkāramānānusayā susamūhatā.
That’s why it didn’t occur to you: Tasmā āyasmato sāriputtassa na evaṃ hoti:
‘I am entering the first absorption’ or ‘I have entered the first absorption’ or ‘I am emerging from the first absorption’.”
“‘ahaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpajjāmī’ti vā ‘ahaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ samāpanno’ti vā ‘ahaṃ paṭhamā jhānā vuṭṭhito’ti vā”ti.
User avatar
bodom
Posts: 7216
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by bodom »

Even Arahants need to use conventions to communicate:
An arahant monk,
one who is done,
effluent-free, bearing his last body:
Would he say, ‘I speak’?
Would he say, ‘They speak to me’?”

“An arahant monk,
one who is done,
effluent-free, bearing his last body:
He would say, ‘I speak’;
would say, ‘They speak to me.’

Skillful,
knowing harmonious gnosis
with regard to the world,
he uses expressions
just as expressions.”

“An arahant monk,
one who is done,
effluent-free, bearing his last body:
Is it from conceit
that he’d say, ‘ I speak’?—
that he’d say, ‘They speak to me’?”

“For one whose conceit is abandoned,
whose knot of conceit is dispersed,
no knots exist
at all.

He, beyond any concept, wise,
would say, ‘I speak’;
would say, ‘They speak to me.’

Skillful,
knowing harmonious gnosis
with regard to the world,
he uses expressions
just as expressions.”
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN1_25.html

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
User avatar
Sam Vara
Site Admin
Posts: 13482
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Portsmouth, U.K.

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by Sam Vara »

bodom wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:49 pm Even Arahants need to use conventions to communicate:
:goodpost: :anjali:
auto
Posts: 4584
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Who is doing the "attaching"?

Post by auto »

Sam Vara wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:28 pm
bodom wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:49 pm Even Arahants need to use conventions to communicate:
:goodpost: :anjali:
What does that quote imply? ("Even Arahants need to use conventions to communicate")
Post Reply